Toyota (duh) RWD Gearbox comparisons

[oldcorollas]

so i figured i'd get the ball rolling (and the post count up :p) by resubmitting side by side comparisons of toyota gearboxes.
if you do resubmit pics from old, please give original author credit :D
(is it possible to host these on toymods itself so they are not "lost"?)

PLEASE DO NO POST CRAP COMMENTS OR "DOES THIS FIT BLAH BLAH" COMMENTS. i will aks for them to be removed my the mods.

please DO post more pictures of different toyota gearboxes, especially of side by side comparisons of size or shifter position. (corrections are always welcome)

from the big GT, J160 vs W58 vs T50 (corrected by Lambolica :D)
http://members.optusnet.com.au/gianttomato/Toyota%20Power%20/gearboxes%20rear.jpg
http://members.optusnet.com.au/gianttomato/Toyota%20Power%20/gearboxes%20front.jpg

from Buccy, V160
http://www.turbosupras.com/images/technical/V160/gearbox%20getrag%20top%201.jpg

from Wilbo666, Norbies Massif Dong V161
http://everest.fit.qut.edu.au/~n4150414/Car/Online%20Norbies%20V161/tn_DSC01474.JPG
http://everest.fit.qut.edu.au/~n4150414/Car/Online%20Norbies%20V161/tn_DSC01476.JPG
and with a W58 rear housing (is it lined up as they would be in a car? ie shifter position comparison?
http://everest.fit.qut.edu.au/~n4150414/Car/Online%20Norbies%20V161/tn_DSC01479.JPG

[oldcorollas]

from airbats801, mitsucrappy box (similar to K50/T50 by looks.. ie can't get much smaller)
with an R154 on the right
http://www.nwstarquest.com/r15402.jpg

from crUZsida, W58 shifter positions (futherst forward one is still 1" back from T50?
http://www.conceptual.net.au/~peewee/Toyota_Supra_5spd_Shifter.jpg
and W5X short shifter thread (with design files!) http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&th=58619&prevloaded=1&rid=1976&S=b5287859bf67e7655f2ff462e261b703&rev=&reveal=&start=30&count=30

from Cool1, W5X that is still a pretty massif dong..
http://members.iinet.net.au/~shanej/box/P0001734.JPG
http://members.iinet.net.au/~shanej/box/P0001735.JPG

[oldcorollas]

from Sprinter-Saurus, nite-parts W5X to 4AG bellhousing.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/ozae86/IMG_0363.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/ozae86/IMG_0361.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/ozae86/IMG_0360.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/ozae86/IMG_0359.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/ozae86/IMG_0358.jpg

so endeth part 1...

Cya, Stewart

[oldcorollas]

from Matt84
celica?? T50
http://members.optusnet.com.au/bamdick/P1010003.jpg

[oldcorollas]

extension housings of K40 gearboxes

left is KE10 only
middle is KE30/35/55, but KE20 position is same
right is KE70 position
each extension housing can be swapped with minimal fuss onto other front housings PROVIDED you also swap the shift rods at the same time (shift forks however are identical)


K50 have a different extension housing, but same shifter position as the KE55 and KE70 above. they are a direct bolt across swap, no mucking around.

KE70 have different rear mount.

http://www.materials.unsw.edu.au/~sford/Kgearbox-exts.jpg

[oldcorollas]

more W58 goodness
http://users.bigpond.net.au/r3spect/gb.jpg
http://users.bigpond.net.au/r3spect/gb2.jpg

[Norbie]

Yet more W58 goodness. JZA80 external shifter housing compared to MA61 internal shifter housing.

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/XMember2/medium_Trans5.jpg

[CrUZida]

Need I mention these two links?

http://www.conceptual.net.au/~peewee/yoda_boxes.html

http://www.conceptual.net.au/~peewee/yoda_5spd_boxes.html

A43DE vs W50
http://www.conceptual.net.au/~peewee/gbox_conv_auto_vs_man_1.JPG

http://www.conceptual.net.au/~peewee/gbox_conv_auto_vs_man_2.JPG


Castlemaine Rodshop 1UZFE Bellhousing on W57
http://www.conceptual.net.au/~peewee/eng_conv/crs_bellhousing_1.jpg

http://www.conceptual.net.au/~peewee/uza61/800/crossmember_fitted_008.jpg

[ed_jza80]

w58 vs r154
in all the comparisons, the w58 is on the top


http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/top.jpg

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/leftside.jpg

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/rightside.jpg

[ed_jza80]

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/w58front.jpg

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/r154front.jpg

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/w58back.jpg

[ed_jza80]

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/r154back.jpg

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/w58sadwichwidth.jpg

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/r154sandwichwidth.jpg

[ed_jza80]

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/w58shaft.jpg

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/r154shaft.jpg

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/w58spline.jpg

[ed_jza80]

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/r154spline.jpg

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/bellhousingfront.jpg

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/bellhousingback.jpg

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/bellhousingside.jpg

[SeptemberSquall]

Yes, but WTF are they?

Matt84's box is the early Celica T50 with 20 spline output shaft.

You can change extension housings on the T50 to give rear shift position on the TA22 gearset or front shift position on the AE86 gearset. May be useful in a conversion of some kind. The all selector gear also needs to be changed to effect the conversion.

[CrUZida]

from crUZsida, W58 shifter positions (futherst forward one is still 1" back from T50?
http://www.conceptual.net.au/~peewee/Toyota_Supra_5spd_Shifter.jpg
If you are talking about the above.
Left = MA61, RA60, RA65
Left + 1 = LX80 or LY80, we couldn't read the writing.
Right - 1 = MA70, GA70
Right = SA63

[oldcorollas]

Yes, but WTF are they?

Matt84's box is the early Celica T50 with 20 spline output shaft.

You can change extension housings on the T50 to give rear shift position on the TA22 gearset or front shift position on the AE86 gearset. May be useful in a conversion of some kind. The all selector gear also needs to be changed to effect the conversion.

ahh i never got around to trying that.. i was actually going to try T18 extension housing to early celica box, to get the AE86 shifter position on an early T50, with smaller splines (makes it perfect for KE70 ;) )

so for the T series, you also need to change all the shift rods? any ideas on the reverse switch? there are at least 3 different positions of them on K series boxes (bot not many ppl are interestd in the bottom feeders ;) )

i think a tech doc with the interchangeability of gearbox series parts could be worth having as a resource.. i can do K series..... :rolleyes:

[SeptemberSquall]

Not too sure about the reversing switch (presently disconnected :rolleyes: ) but will update with this info soon.

Yes, you need to disassemble the box annd change the shift rods etc. as they are longer/different to suit the longer extension housing.

As for KE70, that's exactly what I did. You could just use a TE72 box, that's the same as what I built basically. The only reason I did it was I had a drift victim AE86 box (rear extension) and GC TA22 box available at the same time that I put the 2T-G in my KE70.

[The Witzl]

w58 vs r154
in all the comparisons, the w58 is on the top


http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/top.jpg

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/leftside.jpg


In the pic below, the W58 is actually at the BOTTOM Ed, you donghead =P

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/loats/technical/ma61/images/gearboxes2/rightside.jpg

I fixed it for you mister "tech lord" :)

[The Witzl]

This one is for the P51 vs W50 questioners.....

There is in fact a way to tell the difference between these two old celica 5 speeders by simply looking at them!!
Thanks to River for the use of his Toyota repair manuals, as the use of these is the only way I could find the difference :)

When looking at the two boxes, the W50 has a "ridge back" that slopes downwards from the back of the bellhousing to the extension housing on the top of the main gear casing. You can see this is CrUZisda's pics above of the W50 vs A340 (looking at the black section of the W50).

The P51 box has a perfectly flat top on the main gear casing - in fact the gear casing looks like a perfect square box!

As well at this, the selector bolts onto an angled face on the extension housing of a W50, whereas this is a FLAT (horizontal) face on the extension housing of the P51.

I hope this helps the few of those out there actually searching for a genuine P51 box :)

[CrUZida]

Easier to see here Karl
http://www.conceptual.net.au/~peewee/Celica_Steel.jpg

[wilbo666]

This is an article that I wrote a while back that shows some of the difference me (and norbie) found between Alloy and Steel plate (JZA80 and ?) W5X gearboxes.

ARTICLE HERE 1.4meg (http://everest.fit.qut.edu.au/~n4150414/Car/JZA80%20W58%20vs%20W57/W5X%20Gearbox%20Differences%2014-08-2005.pdf)

Cheers
Wilbo

[Big T]

I remember reading this thread a while back and since i took the box out today....here's a W55 with a Dellow Bellhousing (i still can't get over how ugly it is) compared to an ae86 jdm T-50.

http://img422.imageshack.us/img422/9830/gearboxremoval0140bm.th.jpg (http://img422.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gearboxremoval0140bm.jpg)
http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/7328/gearboxremoval0179jz.th.jpg (http://img471.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gearboxremoval0179jz.jpg)
http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/6527/gearboxremoval0205by.th.jpg (http://img471.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gearboxremoval0205by.jpg)
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/5346/gearboxremoval0182vo.th.jpg (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gearboxremoval0182vo.jpg)
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/9620/gearboxremoval0198jb.th.jpg (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gearboxremoval0198jb.jpg)

Eddie.

[SRacin]

Anyone have any more info, or more importantly pics of the Altezza J160 gearbox, ex RS200 from behind the beams 3sge.

Cheers

[wilbo666]

Anyone have any more info, or more importantly pics of the Altezza J160 gearbox, ex RS200 from behind the beams 3sge.

Cheers

There is a pic of a J160 in the first post...

http://members.optusnet.com.au/gianttomato/Toyota%20Power%20/gearboxes%20rear.jpg

Cheers
Wilbo

[SRacin]

I did see that but I want more :)

[wilbo666]

I did see that but I want more :)

Hehe, OK then.

Cheers
Wilbo

[SRacin]

Acutaully what i also really want to know is if the j160 6 speed has the same output shaft as anything else? How many splines etc etc. Found a box for sale, but it doesnt come with a driveshaft,.

[oldeskewltoy]

J160 box is actually AZ6...

http://www.aisin-ai.co.jp/english/products/fr.html

The AZ6 is fitted to the SXE10, the S15, the RX8 and the MX5 Miata. I DON'T know any specifics about the output shaft..... I do have all the gear ratios available from Aisin Industries(manufacturer of AZ6), and the TRD ratios. Allegedely HKS also has gear sets available... at nearly $10k US!!!

S15 6 spd............ 3.626 2.200 1.541 1.213 1.000 0.767
RX8 6 spd............ 3.760 2.269 1.645 1.187 1.000 0.843
Miata 6-spd 99-05. 3.760 2.269 1.645 1.257 1.000 0.843
SXE10 6 sp.......... 3.874 2.175 1.484 1.223 1.000 0.869
TRD(33030-SE100) 3.106 2.175 1.585 1.223 1.000 0.869

The only car with any consistantly reported problems with the AZ6 is the S15 crowd... the SR20DET puts down too much torque, while in addition, the S15 chassis is rather heavy. Both enemies of a gearbox.

[Celica RA45]

same tail shaft as supra ,ra23 ra40 series celicas, crowns etc
also the gear box is the same length as the w57 /58 over all .its only the gear shift that is further back

[blacktopspirit]

AE71 T50
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w88/blacktopspirit/DSC00209.jpg
AE71 T50 Bellhousing
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w88/blacktopspirit/DSC00210.jpg
W58 to 4AGE with Dellow Bellhousing
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w88/blacktopspirit/W58Dellowbell.jpg

[5000gt]

if you still want pics, i have sitting in my shed and another at a mate's place.

EDIT: of the J160 3sge box that is.

[SeptemberSquall]

from crUZsida, W58 shifter positions (futherst forward one is still 1" back from T50?
http://www.conceptual.net.au/~peewee/Toyota_Supra_5spd_Shifter.jpg

sorry in advance for bumping an old thread but it is a useful one

oldcorollas do you mean w5# front position is 1" back from early (direct selector) or late (remote selector) t50? and how reliable is this info?relevant for a conversion i am working on.

[af300e]

I found that w5* front position (ra60) is 30mm shorter from front of bell to gear stick when compared to ae86/71 t50.

Here's a pic of W58 with forwardmost shifter housing in an ae71 with 4age.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1227/w58shifterpositionae86gy2.th.jpg (http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=w58shifterpositionae86gy2.jpg)

Hope that helps you Micheal.

That pic is not my car. Mine is ae86 but experimentation showed the exact same result. So, after discovering that it was going to look/locate like that I decided to/have used the rearmost (sa63) shifter housing which sits right up against the back of the shifter hole in the tunnel.

Because I'm also running a quick-shift stick (as in pic) and thus losing the rear biased dogleg in the stock stick, I wanted the housing as far back as possible.

[driftke70]

If you are talking about the above.
Left = MA61, RA60, RA65
Left + 1 = LX80 or LY80, we couldn't read the writing.
Right - 1 = MA70, GA70
Right = SA63


i tend to disagree, i have an sa63 and its more simmilar to right-1 than right.

[cambelt]

No SA 63 has the rearmost one 100%
Dave

[wilbo666]

i tend to disagree, i have an sa63 and its more simmilar to right-1 than right.

You are wrong :)

SA63 is rearmost.

Cheers
Wilbo

[CrUZida]

i tend to disagree, i have an sa63 and its more simmilar to right-1 than right.
Perhaps the box is not the original ?

[SRacin]

Ok so incase anyone wanted to know a W50 from a crown etc (m-series) is <edit> FRACTIONALL shorter than a w57. I measure a w50 at 705mm from b/h to output back face (not end out output shaft) and my w57 at 690 , can any one confirm this? <edit>


I have headaches with driveshafts when trying to convert MY mx83 to manual. It kinda works with abit of material removal from the driveshaft, and forcing the shaft into the the w50 but then it leaks like a sieve...doh...

[CrUZida]

The first W50 I had was sold to me as a Crown box (had an M bellhousing on it) and was the exact same length as my W58

I also had a W40 which was the exact same length.

[SRacin]

doubt caused me to measure. i get about a 15mm diff between the w57 and the w50 i have.

[Major Clod]

A J160 Gearbox has an external shifter, that you can easily move between two positions (2 inches difference) really easily, without the need to purchase or fabricate any extra parts. Unbolt a few bolts and knock out a pin, flip a part around and then remount to a second set of mounting holes and you're done. The Altezza uses the rear position for the shifter.

[jak]

sorry to dig up an old thread, but rather than start a new one...

So to convert my 4age to a w55 or w57 i would need a dellow bellhousing? or is there a toyota bellhousing that i can use?

Cheers
Jak

[WDE_BDY]

Dellows are not really rated that highly. You need a Niteparts or one of the Malaysian bellhousings. There is a big thread on the different options around here somewhere.

Callum

EDIT - Look here -
http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7542

[jwebb2876]

If anyone wants I can take some photo's of the Mitsubishi 5 speed (Scorpion 'box, NOT BW poo) that I had behind the 3TG in my ST141 before I found a W50. It took a hell of a lot of abuse, and seemed to handle the 110rwhp I've got no worries. My cousin uses one in his rally car (GH Sigma, 2.6 Astron 260hp 400nm) and it has lived quite happily there for the past 9 years, only needing one rebuild.
Cheers:D
Josh

[The Witzl]

So does anyone have any comments to make about the strengths of the W55 vs W58?
The application is a turbo 18RG.... and it will get some abuse - currently have a W55 put aside for the job.

Should i just stump up for a W58 when one pops up?

[river]

Hi,

What engine type/power was a W55 and a W58 from?

Then, based on the power you think your engine will output. go from there.

seeyzuz
river

[The Witzl]

River - stating the obvious to me is like handing an ADHD kid a loaded gun and asking him not to shoot.

My target power is more than yours.

[river]

Hi,

LOL!!!!!

Okay, well you better get some more work on your engine then, sunshine.

seeyuzz
river

[YLD-16L]

W57 V W58 I've not noticed any real differences in longevity or strength (tested with abuse) between them and people will argue til the cows come home about whether a box is a 57 or 58 anyway.

I'd be more concerned about finding a healthy box in the ratios you want more so than comparing 55 V 57 V 58 if strength is the issue as I doubt it varies much at all from what I've seen.

[old_school_jap1]

from what i've read alloy sandwich plate w55's and alloy sandwich plate w58's should be exactly the same strength. it is only the expensive steel sandwich plate ones that have a few bigger bearings and are therefore stronger.

[manual]

Just some pics i have of an R154 vs V160 (the R154 is the clean one)

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/manualrztt/6-spd%20conversion/th_GetragVsR154Pic7.jpg (http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/manualrztt/6-spd%20conversion/?action=view&current=GetragVsR154Pic7.jpg)

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/manualrztt/6-spd%20conversion/th_GetragVsR154Pic6.jpg (http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/manualrztt/6-spd%20conversion/?action=view&current=GetragVsR154Pic6.jpg)

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/manualrztt/6-spd%20conversion/th_GetragVsR154Pic5.jpg (http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/manualrztt/6-spd%20conversion/?action=view&current=GetragVsR154Pic5.jpg)

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/manualrztt/6-spd%20conversion/th_GetragVsR154Pic4.jpg (http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/manualrztt/6-spd%20conversion/?action=view&current=GetragVsR154Pic4.jpg)

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/manualrztt/6-spd%20conversion/th_GetragVsR154Pic3.jpg (http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/manualrztt/6-spd%20conversion/?action=view&current=GetragVsR154Pic3.jpg)

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/manualrztt/6-spd%20conversion/th_GetragVsR154Pic2.jpg (http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/manualrztt/6-spd%20conversion/?action=view&current=GetragVsR154Pic2.jpg)

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/manualrztt/6-spd%20conversion/th_GetragVsR154Pic1.jpg (http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/manualrztt/6-spd%20conversion/?action=view&current=GetragVsR154Pic1.jpg)

[Sciflyer]

Yours Mal? Still got the R154 that you want to sell now that your not doing a conversion? ;)

[manual]

Yours Mal? Still got the R154 that you want to sell now that your not doing a conversion? ;)

Actually the V160 was mine that i was going to put into the aristo .. the R154 went into another aristo in melbourne (that car coincedentally is up for sale at the moment)

and i sold the 6spd conversion some time ago sorry.