Teh 4AGE into KE70/AE71 Guide!

[phrostbyte]

Well...

I finished my original 4AGE conversion into the KE70 about 2 months ago, then wrote it off about 2 weeks ago, so I figure I'll well document the swap over into the new AE71 and include a few bits from the KE70 conversion that I took photos of. Should happen within a week and I'll have my ADSL back then, so watch this space.

Parts Needed:
Complete 4A-GE Engine (JDM RWD in my case, FWD water conversion guides are everywhere anyway)
Loom, ECU, Coil, Igniter module
Roll of wire
Fuel pump (VL in this case)
A metre or so of 8MM EFI fuel hose and a bunch of small hose clamps


(For KE70):
T40 or T50 Gearbox from AE71/AE86
Tailshaft from AE71/AE86
AE71 Pedal box, Clutch master cylinder, Clutch line, Clutch Slave cylinder

Tools Needed:
Ratchet, short and long extensions, and 10mm, 12mm, 14mm and 17mm sockets
Big bar to stick over ratchet or an actual reversable torque wrench to loosen those tight bolts
Phillips and flat head screwdrivers
Hydraulic jack, scissor jack, safety stands, ramps, take your pick?
Engine crane or a block & tackle with a sturdy roof
Pliers and/or sidecutters
Soldering iron and solder (if you want to do the proper job...)


Stage One - Old engine removal

Basically Unplug and unscrew everything on the engine that holds it to the chassis. Unbolt gearbox crossmember and middle tailshaft mount, but don't bother unbolting gearbox.
http://ke70.theicy.net/4kremove1.jpg

After that, strap up (I find seatbelt works ace and can hold about 300KG before so much as fraying) and remove the engine and gearbox with an engine crane or block and tackle. Go on, laugh at my country style engine crane.
http://ke70.theicy.net/4age6.JPG

AE71 owners can skip straight past this section, as you already have these parts in your car :P

Stage Two - AE71 Parts into KE70.

After you have cleaned your engine bay up a bit, KE70 owners would now bolt in the AE71 4A crossmember. It means unbolting the steering rack and the lower control arms, then taking out the 4 large bolts that hold the crossmember on. Reverse the process for the new crossmember.

Now then, pull your dash apart!! And I mean the entire dash! Until all you can see is a few supports, your steering column and lots of wires. As so:
http://ke70.theicy.net/dotdotdot/hy5.JPG

Next take your old pedal box out. Most of the bolts are fairly visible, there are 4 on the firewall, 2 holding the steering column up, AND there is a secret one underneath it in a small gap that I screamed profanities at for a while :). If you haven't done so already, chop your clutch cable with a pair of sidecutters. Once it's out, test fit the AE71 pedal box to mark out where the clutch master cylinder holes need to be. There are two holes approx 1cm in diameter and one hole approx 1 inch in diameter.
KE70 Cable clutch pedal box:
http://ke70.theicy.net/dotdotdot/hy3.JPG

AE71 Hydraulic clutch pedal box:
http://ke70.theicy.net/dotdotdot/hy4.JPG

Late model KE70's will have the cut-out area on the firewall insulation marked out:
http://ke70.theicy.net/dotdotdot/hy6.JPG

Unfortunately I did an absolute shit job of measuring and had to elongate my holes about 4 times, but I eventually got it right and it mounted securely anyway:
http://ke70.theicy.net/dotdotdot/hy7.JPG

And then, mount the pedal box, and mount the master clutch cylinder:
http://ke70.theicy.net/dotdotdot/hy9.JPG

After this you can go ahead to put the metal lines in and even the slave cylinder if you want.

This guide continues about 6 posts down, gonna talk to an admin to ask for allowance for more than 10 images in the one post soon...



Kev.

[roadsailing]

you what two weeks ago?

[phrostbyte]

Lol yeah quite tragic, don't ask what happened... But the engine and most suspension components are fine, so it will all be swapped into the new shell.

[EldarO]

he bought car, did car up, car broke, now hes putting all good bits from old car into new car.

I helped a mate out with this conversion, it was a pain in the ass.

Eldar.O.

[phrostbyte]

Yeah the main pain in the ass is swapping the pedal box over and drilling the holes for the master cylinder. Luckily this time I bought an AE71 :). I might actually get started on this guide tomorrow night, with the whole hydraulic clutch conversion from the KE70.

Continuance:

Stage Three - 4AGE and T40/T50 input
Make sure the clutch is bolted onto the flywheel, and that your clutch fork with the bearing are in and lined up. Push your gearbox onto the engine and line up the holes, then put all the bolts in.

Your engine bay should be clean by now, strap the 4age and lift it up with the engine crane/block and tackle. This part is much faster accomplished with 2 people, as one person can guide the gearbox through into the driveline and lower the crane while one person moves the car forward or moves the crane forward. Lower it into place and screw the two engine mount nuts on.
http://ke70.theicy.net/4age9.jpg

A good idea, as realized on my second engine conversion (Into my cousins AE86), was to put a strap from around the oil cap to the radiator support, just to hold the engine straight and not let the mounts flex too much for too long.
http://ke70.theicy.net/strap.jpg

The next stage is bolting the gearbox up to the chassis. Get under the car, Put a scissor jack under the gearbox and wind it up until the gb crossmember lines up with the holes. Then screw the bolts in. You can also now bolt up your RWD 4A starter motor.

If you are using a second hand exhaust, now is probably the easiest time to bolt it up. Make sure you align the extractors properly so that all 5 bolts go in. If even one bolt won't go in, it means that one port will be slightly blocked, only a mm or two, but even so it may cause a leak too, so best to re-align it. If you are using a second hand gasket, I recomment a copper based silicone, as these can handle the highest temperature out of all the silicones I've seen out there.




The rest of this guide will be added after I do the conversion into the AE71 in a few days, as I got lazy with photos about halfway on the KE70. I will be adding a looming guide too, which I know alot of people get stuck on, but its really not that hard if you know what you're doing...

Kev.

[EldarO]

Why wouldnt you just put the gearbox on OUTSIDE the car?

Kev, it saved us so much hassle, it took an extra few minutes muscling it in, but it was alot easier in the long run.

also, add to your parts list an EFI fuel pump and tank (for internal ones)

We used an ae82 FX-GT fuel pump inside an AE86 tank, everything bolted up, however the pump needs to be extended lower into the tank, as the pickup doesnt reach very far.

Eldar.O.

[roadsailing]

agree with you there EldarO,

the ONLY way to take out a 4AGE or T50 is with the gearbox attatched. the only way to put it back in is with the gearbox attatched.

no question about it!

[phrostbyte]

So true. Now that I did it that way with the AE71 this morning I'll never look back, saved me about half an hour and a whole lot of muscle straining.

Posts edited to reflect that suggestion.

Oh and also, yeah I used a JDM AE86 pump with an AE82 twincam pump mount inside an AE86 tank on my cousins AE86.

Cheers,
Kev.

[SeptemberSquall]

the ONLY way to take out a 4AGE or T50 is with the gearbox attatched. the only way to put it back in is with the gearbox attatched.

no question about it!

Why wouldnt you just put the gearbox on OUTSIDE the car?

Kev, it saved us so much hassle, it took an extra few minutes muscling it in, but it was alot easier in the long run.


Sounds suspiciously like something I may or may not have tried to suggest to the person in question the night before this happened lol

[phrostbyte]

Hahah yeah I do slightly remember you telling me that. I took 80% of the bolts out from the T50/4A-C this morning, then stripped one (due to a dodgy fkn socket...) and then went "feck it just pull the whole lot out in one go". Turned out alot easier putting the 4AGE in that way too...

Kev.

[The Witzl]

faaark, i should REALLY finish the big rwd 4age conversion guide i was writing once upon a creation of these forums....
... i totally forgot about it.
... and the 20v
... and the gze


good little guide.

[EldarO]

Oh, and i just noticed the ghetto engine removal.

Kev. Everything "Ken_T" and I have done with cars has been twice as ghetto as that.

Engine removal consisted of droping the crossmember, and lifting the car over the engine, engine transportation, we got two poles of jarrah, through a chain attatched to the engine, and lifted into the back of my old van, etc. etc.

Really, there are easier ways, but they cost monies, which really can be avoided if you use your noggin ;)

Excellent info mate :)

Eldar.O.

[phrostbyte]

Hahaha, ghetto = gold :D

This time into the AE71 I ended up using the flimsy roof of my current garage with a 30 or so KG block and tackle I borrowed off September Squall. I reckon the thing could lift 3 tonne easy hahahah... (Not that my roof would support that, it was almost crippled with a 4age..)

Witzl man, I wanna see a guide on how to turbo a smallport kgo! Also any chance I can get an allowance for more than 10 images in the first post? I'd rather put the entire guide into the 1st post...

Cheers,
Kev.

[The Witzl]

cant change no. images per post, sorry.

Turboing a smallport = smallport + turbo'n'shit :D

[phrostbyte]

Ahh allright np man.

What a massif guide Karl! Teh boy'z got shkillz. Ahah its almost as good as your description of what happens when you put a 4AGTE and a T50 together. :P

Kev.

[chris davey]

Good read :) I have a ke70 as a daily and would like to do this in the future. I think I will start with an ae71 though :) +1

[phrostbyte]

Heheh cheers man, still yet to add the VL fuel pump guide and looming guide, but it's coming (Need to buy some batteries for my camera). I will include pinouts for various 4ag ECUs and some wiring diagrams from a few different sites. Original site names will be noted.

Also, pm'd man.

Cheers,
Kev.

[LeeRoy]

I must say thats some awesome innovation using a tree for an engne crane - i guess just work with what youve got. Another thing with taking motors out with t-50's on, when me and daniel (aeeightysix) put his motor in we did it with the box off, although it would be easier with it on he didn't wany us risking the new engine bay paint. Mind you it was pretty gay putting the box back on under the car but the engine bay was saved

- LeeRoy

[Cuzzo]

hey kev.
im doing a smallport turbo into ke30 and i need to see what your water pump/ remote thermo setup looks like.If you had any pics that would be tops. i had a look a the whitzls one and fixed mine up very similiar to that but theres a few things that are not comfortable and i cant bolt it to anything. i think i need to re do it.

[phrostbyte]

Hey Cuzzo,
I actually did this conversion with a JDM bigport 4AGE, which means that the thermostat housing was just to the left of the waterpump, built onto the engine. I'll take a photo of the conversion I did on my cousin's AE86 tomorrow afternoon for you. We didn't actually bolt the remote thermostat housing to anything, aslong as the hoses are clamped tight enough, it stays in place by itself.

Kev.

[rthy]

i believe there a fwd to rwd 4age guide on the old forum (by the witzl)

[Cuzzo]

yeah there is and i have done that to the T but just want some pics of diff setups. just so i can make 100% sure i wont get air locks.

[The Witzl]

Cuzzo.... get a pic of your setup and i'll help where i can.

I didnt have my remote thermo-housing bolted to ANYTHING... the rubber hoses is what kept it in place! And it was fine too.... i never had a coolant problem, even when she was turbo!

[rthy]

i used zip ties, but a metal bracket would have been better

[Sam_Q]

for those who dont know:


To all that knew Kev (phrostbyte),

I am sad to say that during the night, Kev was in a fatal car accident. I don't know the details yet other than he had a crash while driving my Corolla and passed away.

As his room-mate and being one of my best friends I am struggling to even write this. I can't imagine how his family must be feeling. He was someone who showed the most potential out of anyone I knew and it's such a waste that's hes gone now. He will be sadly missed as both a fellow car modifier and as a good friend.

-->Sam.Q


however I am sure Kev would of wanted this thread to continue so if people still have questions then I am sure others wil be able to aswer instead.

[EldarO]

Ken_T's isnt held on by anything but the hoses, its fine, holds damn well.

jap spec 4AGE into a KE70 with the slanted front lights.

Ill tie him down and take some pics if anyone needs them for reference, also, we didnt do the wiring, its the only thing we didnt do however, because we just sat there scratching our heads, this is where Matt_ae86 came in, he walked up to the car, and without any diagrams, chopped, cut, shut and manipulated the loom.

he had it running, first time, in under 40 minutes.

Eldar.O.

[Cuzzo]

thanx peoples i will get some photos up if i can get the camera in there but it looks pretty good. im happy with it.