MA61 5me to 5mge conversion guide

[Enchanter]

This is quite an easy conversion and is perfect for "your first engine conversion".
The engine for this conversion is from a 1986 mx73 Cressida and assumes you have the whole box and dice to make the engine run including some of the plugs from the Cressida bay.

"It just bolts in"
The gearbox will bolt straight up as will the engine mounts and exhaust,(you may need a new exhaust flange gasket). There is no need for a different clutch or flywheel, even the fan bolts up. So pulling the 5me out and putting the 5mge in is the "easy" part although dont think you will do it in a couple of hours unless you have experienced help, its a big job.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b271/lsddrift/5mgeswap031.jpg

The AFM is different but it isnt too hard to swap the 5mge AFM onto the stock 5me airbox as the bolt spacing is identical, the hole from the box to the AFM will be too small but thats not too hard to fix. I also used the stock Cressida piping to the air box, it is a difficult fit but it will work. I did find a slight trim helped.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b271/lsddrift/5mgeswap029.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b271/lsddrift/5mgeswap036.jpg

The fuel pump is switched through the AFM (Air Flow Meter), if there is no air passing through it the fuel pump will not run. This is so that if the engine stops for any reason, (accident etc) the fuel pump wont make matters worse by continuing to pump fuel.

There are two AFM plugs, the original 5me one that is part of the body loom and the 5mge one that is part of the engine loom. There is also a yellow 2 pin plug that should not be connected to anything.
The 2 pin plug is the AFM fuel pump switch bypass used to check the opperation of the fuel pump without having to crank the engine over. Simply tap the fuel pump check connector wires into the same colored wires that run from the 5mge AFM plug wires. Dont forget to tape up the old AFM plug and tuck it out of the way.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b271/lsddrift/5mgeswap048.jpg

Next the other side of the engine. There are several plugs to play with here.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b271/lsddrift/5mgeswap044.jpg

I mounted the coil and igniter to the 5me coil bracket as the 5mge one wont fit.
Remove the wire with the green female plug from the 5me coil and attach it to the negitive side of the 5mge coil. Plug it into the matching plug in the engine bay. This wire is for the tach signal to the dash.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b271/lsddrift/ConversionJan07004.jpg

The blue 2 pin plug from the engine loom plugs into a noise suppressor as the above pic shows.

Next is the big yellow round male two pin plug that supplies power to the coil/ingiter and the the resistor pack, this needs to be tapped into a power source. Make sure you grab the female side of this plug from the Cressida. You need to splice the plug into the 5me's original power for the injectors and coil, both these wires are black with red stripe.
The coils power wire has a black sheath over it, I almost mistook it for an earth because of this. I cut the end off and crimped a female plug on the end.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b271/lsddrift/5mgeswap050.jpg
The injectors power is a large yellow single pin plug similar to the new plug you are using.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b271/lsddrift/5mgeswap051.jpg

Next the funny shaped yellow 6 pin plug ,(it only has three wires though). This is power to the the ecu. I chose to tap into the relay box plug. Just match the wire colors together.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b271/lsddrift/5mgeswap049.jpg

The power steering lines from the Cressida will fit the ma61 bay with a tiny bit of persuasion.

The top radiator hose will not fit and you will need to source a new one. I got the engine running with a GH Sigma top radiator hose although it did have a bit of a kink in it. Im now using a Ford Falcon lower radiator hose, if you use this hose be sure to get a 1994 onwards hose, NOT a 1992 it is the wrong diameter. There is also a kink in the Falcon hose but it is reinforced with internal wire so its not too bad. You will need to trim a fair bit off the hose to make it fit.

You will need to fit the Cressida acc cable, the 5me cable can work but it could be better so go with the 5mge one. (edit: the cressida 5mge cable I sourced did not fit, so Im using the original 5me one with some modifications)

I suggest you test the engine before you feed the loom plugs back through the firewall, if there is a problem you may want easy access to the ECU plugs to check continuity. When you do feed them in wrap them all together, I used electrical tape, Ive head of gladrap, whatever works but it is a major pain in the arse !!!!!!
Swap the ECU brackets over and the 5mge ECU will slot perfectly into where the 5me one was.

The last part is hooking up the aircon and the coolant temp to the dash.
This diagram was done up by ViPeR_NiPPleX so huge thanks on both this diagram and quite a few tips he gave me along the way. I think ViPeR_NiPPleX deserves some +rep dont you :)
See his post here --> http://www.toymods.net/forums/showpost.php?p=328178&postcount=266

If you are going to use the stock 5me airbox (as I have) you will need to plug the pipes that went to the 5me airpump, though only the outer one will let in unfiltered air you may as well plug both.

If there is anything I have forgotten (probably) I will update.

Enjoy

[RObErT_RaTh]

Awesome mate, top stuff! Plus rep for you!

(Edit, you linked it ;))

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

Niiice :D Bout time this was put into a proper thread... instead of one that is full of silly questions :P

I like how you did the black with red stripe power wires in the bay. Each time i've done it, i just lob off both the ring and the single pin yellow connector and just solder/tape. Not very pretty, but works.

[Negative Boost]

Well done Enchanter, this is rather tops! Should help a fair few fellow toymodders :)

[RObErT_RaTh]

I'm hoping I can write up a 5ME-T guide to give people an option between 5MGE and an conversion or modification to get same or more power (albeit not as reliable :P)

[Enchanter]

Even if no one follows the 5mte route its still great info to have. I know there is little chance I will ever do a 5mte but Id like to see a guide and the results of one. I wonder how one would fare against say an rb30et ?

Nah, probably not that well, but the thoughts there :D

[RObErT_RaTh]

Eh that's a bit rough, my mate says my current 5ME is almost pretty much on par with his old rb30 :P

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

When you have got your 5mte running i'll have to come over and get a dyno shootout to show which produces more power and such other nice things... drag slips would be cool too.

[Enchanter]

Yeah, my old 5me was only a fraction off a shitty old r31 skyline a few months back.
What I meant was that the rb30et is a factory turbo motor, so for the 5me to really step up to it there would have to be some internal work done.

Anyone that cracks open a 5me to fit turbo friendy internals is more than a simple nutter, they need locking up for their own good.

There are some mean rb30et engines out there but Im sure the 5me would be in the same ballpark if someone was insane enough to do it properly.

[Norbie]

There are some mean rb30et engines out there but Im sure the 5me would be in the same ballpark if someone was insane enough to do it properly.
I disagree. The RB30ET is a proven package and it doesn't have some of the weaknesses of the M series engines, especially WRT headgasket sealing. A VL turbo can do a low 13 second pass with stock turbo and budget mods (a friend of mine has done it so this isn't just hearsay); getting a 5M-E to do the same thing reliably would take lots more effort/expense.

[Enchanter]

I disagree. The RB30ET is a proven package and it doesn't have some of the weaknesses of the M series engines, especially WRT headgasket sealing. A VL turbo can do a low 13 second pass with stock turbo and budget mods (a friend of mine has done it so this isn't just hearsay); getting a 5M-E to do the same thing reliably would take lots more effort/expense.

Yeah I do agree that the rb30et is a strong, proven engine, its just that if the 5me did have someone that escaped from the asylum put the necessary work in I think its possible that it could come up close.

Its all theoretical though because Im sure anyone insane enough to want to do it would be heavily sedated with a permanent guard outside the door.

[RObErT_RaTh]

I'm a retard, I was thinking.... I don't know what I was thinking. I thought you were talking about a non turbo old SOHC 3ltr 4 door r31 skyline engine :P For some reason I was thinking DET and D for turbo not T :P Don't mind me. My 5M is nowhere near any turbo car I've come across :(

And what's that? You want me to work the internals of the 5ME and poor all my kesh kesh into it? :)

Viper, dyno shootout would be good. Definately keen to see how I go :)

[Negative Boost]

And what's that? You want me to work the internals of the 5ME and poor all my kesh kesh into it? :)

Noooooo....

I'm a retard

Yesssss....

Lols just kidding mate! (about the retard thing, dont you dare work the 5ME!)

[RObErT_RaTh]

Lols just kidding mate! (about the retard thing, dont you dare work the 5ME!)

But... but..!!! There's this spot inside of me that is all soft for the 5M and I don't think it will go away unless I keep a 5M and work the hell out of it. I won't be able to sleep at night (probably because I would've sold my bed for a forged piston) and it will haunt me till the day I die unless I give that 5M all I've got!

If 5MTE fails miserably then it's 5MGE time, then it's 5MGE plus 7MGTE turbo parts time

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

interesting thing to note as differences between the 5m-e and 5m-ge. I was reading the twin-cam article thats hosted on www.v-eight.com and reading thru the paragraphs, saw that they said the water pump pulley and oil pump drive run a lower ratio compared to the 5m-e. Would only matter if you intended to rev the 5m-e a bit more, but interesting to find out.

[RObErT_RaTh]

More fuel for the fire you say? :)

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

just more of an excuse to see a 5m-e actually perform outside the square :P

or blow it up and swap in a real motor.... you know, whatever....

[RObErT_RaTh]

just more of an excuse to see a 5m-e actually perform outside the square :P

Sean did it, although regretting a lot of it :P And GT has an uber rebuild 5MTE that's still a WIP as far as I know? It's just so much EASIER and CHEAPER for me to turbo this thing than do anything else right now. Probably same price just more effort to 5MGE it, I'll go hunt for one so I can prepare for the worst

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

If we are to delve into that topic further, i'd suggest we start a new thread, I don't want to clutter this one with more off topic stuff :)

On topic, i'm using the stock airbox with the mx73 piping to the AFM. I find the distance is slightly different to the mx73 and so the piping has to go on slightly inconvient angles. No leaks I don't think. But I have seen the mx73 stock air box used in this conversion too... not enough room :P

[Enchanter]

Im using the stock mx73 piping to the 5me airbox. It was a pain to get it to fit, I didnt think it would at first but persistance paid off.
I'll ad it to the main post.

But... but..!!! There's this spot inside of me that is all soft for the 5M and I don't think it will go away unless I keep a 5M and work the hell out of it...
Oh dear, is there any medication you can take for that ?
/jk :P

[RObErT_RaTh]

Oh dear, is there any medication you can take for that ?

Only one cure that I'm aware of.... :P

On topic: Roughly how long do you think the conversion took you enchanter and how many people required? 2 or 3? I'm curious if it could be done by a newbie such as myself with the help of a couple newbie mates :)

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

If you are jumping in the deep end and attempting this conversion... I would definately plan out what needs to be done in stages. Even simple disassembly.

1. Remove AFM and intake piping
2. Remove radiator
3. etc etc

Tick off as you go, and that sort of thing. You don't want to be at the stage where you have to drop the gearbox and find you left the gearstick in :P

[Enchanter]

I did 95% of it by myself, it was only time saving stuff that I was helped with. If you have an engine hoist that can alter the CoG for the engine and gearbox to tilt it halfway out you wont need more than one person.

By far I spent the most time getting the 5me out of the car cleanly. Im only guessing but from removing the bonnet and dropping coolant/gbox oil to 5me sitting on the ground would have been at about 5 hours by myself.
Another hour swaping the flywheel and gbox etc over.
About 3 to drop the 5mge back in including tailshaft and exhaust.
About 2 hours to refit AFM, radiator, gearstick, gbox oil.
Then about 4 to work out the wiring, it would only take about 1.5 hours now though.
15 hours work sounds about right, although I didnt time myself so I could be out a few hours either way. I did the actual engine swap not including AFM etc in one day and I was totally stuffed by the end.

I think with a few mates, the right tools and a good plan as James has mentioned you could have this done in a weekend, although Id aim for a long weekend just to be sure ;)
Oh and be sure you have everything you need before you start, radiator hose, gearbox oil etc etc.

[RObErT_RaTh]

Thanks mate, gives me a good idea of what to plan for ;)

[KGB]

Hi Tim finaly got cleared hehe .... just want to say thanks for your help & this :cool: thread oh & some Rep ...

Cheers Keith: :) :)

[Enchanter]

No probs keith :)