Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

[Starfire]

A couple of people have expressed interest in my AL25 engine conversion project on the forum, so I thought I may as well make a thread about it.

Most of the content here is taken from the thread that I have been running in www.toyotacarclub.net and it will be in the form of a rather long slab with a few quotes and different datestamps in it.

Let me know what you think of it so far.

Cheers,
Terry

[Starfire]

08/24/06 at 15:11:16
Hi Guys,

I am in the middle of replacing a broken 3A-C with a bigport 4A-GE in an AL25 Tercel wagon. So far we have run in to a few problems with the job including:

The 4AGE flywheel from the AE82 donor car didnt fit as it was too big. The solution to this was to have the standard 3AC flywheel welded up and machined to match the 8 bolt crank of the 4AG. Unfortunately I broke one of the pressure plate bolts in it so I have to have it removed.

The exhaust will not line up with the 4AGE as the old 3AC was non-crossflow. We will have to fabricate something up. I still have to find a RWD exhaust manifold for a 4AGE. Extractors would be nice.

We need to fabricate up a mount for the alternator as the stock location is taken up by the front engine mount. The 3AC mount connects to the head and therefore it now compatable.

Because the engine sits up so high (on top of the gearbox) the bonnet will not clear the inlet manifold. It was planned to use the stock FWD inlet manifold with a pipe coming off the back for the air filter (plenty of clearance between the throttle body and the firewall. We can either lower the manifold, get a custom manifold or (my favourite) cut a hole in the bonnet

The whole thing is yet to be wired up. It shouldnt be too hard as we have the complete loom from the AL25 and the AE82.

We need to make up a fuel system. I am considering a small surge tank in the engine bay.

So it's only a small job then?

08/25/06 at 09:27:48
Its not too bad really. So far it's cost fuck all and keeps me entertained

08/27/06 at 21:01:29
Well,

It looks like the AL25 project is on hold. Matt has decided to fuck me around and wants to put the 4ag in to the seca. This means that I have to reverse all of the work that I have done so far and find a new engine to put in the Terc.

Does anyone here have a 20v, or know where I can fine one to put in this fucker? I might take my time now that Matt isnt going to drive it and paint it properly. I think that it would look hot in black with a dark silver two tone.

painting with acrlyic is much easier than 2pak, so I'd go with straight colours.

09/15/06 at 20:52:46
Matt and I have managed to come to an agreement. I now own the 4AGE so the Tercel project is back on track.

I have decided that I don't trust the redrilled flywheel so I will have to get a new one made up. The engine will be coming back out this weekend and I will be removing the flywheel.

While I am waiting for that I am going to start prepping the car for paint - the red has to go. I am very keen on Toyota 202 black. A classic "blacker than black" shade used by them in the 80s. On top of this I am considering a dark grey two tone on the bottom of the car.

To this end I will be stripping the car further and will start rubbing it down for the paint to be laid.

Here is a photo of how the car looks at the moment:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~t.kowalik/AL25.jpg

09/16/06 at 20:40:38
Beej came over today and after we cut the bonnet oppen on his Mazda 323 SS(Spazzy), changed the oil, filled up the break fluid and replaced the bonnet with a new one, got to work on the Tercel.

The engine came back out again (it was such an effort removing the 2 and a half bolts holding it in...)


Removed the pressure plate and clutch
Removed the flywheel
Did a crapload of sanding


I have found someone who is going to machine up a new flywheel out of a high grade steel that will be far superior to the modified cast one that we just removed, particularly as the cast item had developed a few cracks during welding.

We sanded about 80% of the roof back to the primer. We went through to the bare metal in a few spots and also found a few rust spots on the roof. Good thing that I picked up a jubo bucket of body filler. In the morning I will apply a coat of primer to the bald spots to stop surface rust forming.

I need to remove the doors and hatch to allow me to sand them down, as well as the door jams. I plan to have this car painted so that you can't tell that it was red in the past, although the engine bay may prove to be a bit of an issue. Do you think it would be cool to leave that red? Being a covered area it hasnt faded much and therefore looks half decent.

Once the engine is back in I will have to test fit the front quarters and bonnet to work out how much it doesnt fit by. I am still leaning towards a large reverse bonnet scoop like the one found on the VL Walkinshaw commodore.

Perhaps I should consider fitting a bit of a bodykit to the car? Modified VK Commodore front and rear bumpers (or camira?) and AW11 side skirts?

09/17/06 at 22:43:36
I dropped off the flywheel to be copied today. I should get the replacement one in a week or so

10/02/06 at 10:06:35
We did more bodywork yesterday.

The rear bumper has been removed and the hatch area stripped of it's interior.
The body mouldings have all been removed and most of the holes filled.
A couple of rust holes have been patched.

We removed the windscreen to see just how bad the rust around it was. It had been patched at some stage in the past and is getting pretty bad.

I need to weld up the holes and patch it up.

10/15/06 at 13:45:57
I havnt done much on the Terc in the last couple of weeks. Work has been sending me interstate a bit and I need to finish off a report for a client ASAP. We have done plenty of sanding though - about half way throufh that now.

I do know that the flywheel is finished. I have to pick it up and get it balanced. Some new bolts arrived for me from the guys at Jarvis Toyota.

The guys in the spare parts division down there are great! They always help me out and find obscure parts for old cars, often from overseas.

I need to strip out the interior completely as the car is getting to the point where more of it is out than in anyway. I have to find a spot to mount the ECU and find a half decent stereo for the car. I am kinda tempted to fit an air conditioner to it too.

11/01/06 at 12:13:38

Jordan and I went and picked up the flywheel last night.

Damn that thing is heavy.

Here are a couple of pics:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~t.kowalik/al25/flywheel_front.JPG
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~t.kowalik/al25/flywheel_back.JPG

11/01/06 at 19:25:17
I fitted the flywheel, clutch and pressure plate to the engine and fitted the engine to the car. As it was getting a little dark I don't have a picture of the car with the engine in it. I'll try and take one tomorrow.

Here is the flywheel on the engine:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~t.kowalik/al25/flywheel_on.JPG

Here is the complete clutch assembly just before I fitted the engine to the car.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~t.kowalik/al25/clutch_complete.JPG

11/04/06 at 19:32:44
Here is a shot of the car with the engine in it.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~t.kowalik/al25/engine_in.JPG

As you can see a good deal of the interior has been removed as well as some of the fixed glass. Much sanding has taken place with much more to go...

[Starfire]

The latest update is that I have painted up a spare set of cam wheels that I had and put them on. While I was at it I replaced the timing belt with a new one.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~t.kowalik/al25/camwheels.jpg

[cambelt]

does the crank use a spiggot bearing , did u fit it before u fitted the motor
Dave

[Starfire]

Do you mean the thrust bearing behind the clutch on the gearbox? Yep - the old one never left the box.

[Grega]

starfire, no, dave means the little bearing that is in the backside of the crankshaft that holds the input shaft in place. FWD motors do not have this by default - only RWD ones do. if you leave this out you will destroy the bearing for your input shaft as the input shaft will not be supported.

ps: mate - great conversion. always liked the quirky al25 tercel

[Starfire]

Hrm. Shit.

I'll have to check the old engine.

[takai]

The 4AGZE wont have a spigot bearing, and im 99% sure that the AL25 will need one.

Which means entire engine out and back in to replace a $4 item.

[Starfire]

If I have to remove the engine again I'll put in a new clutch while I'm at it.

[Starfire]

The old engine has a bearing :(

Who feels like helping me remove an engine on the weekend?

I'll get a new clutch while I'm at it too.

[Starfire]

I have ordered a new clutch kit which I should get tonight as well as a new spigot bearing.

Bearing - $13.50
Clutch kit - $120
Realizing that you have to pull out an engine over a $13 part - priceless

:)

[Grega]

bugger man. sorry to give you bad news.
pity you're in SA i'd spend 30 mins to give you a hand (it took me less than that to get my 4AGE outta my ta22 lastnight...)
but better to get it right (now) than later

thats a pretty cheap clutch too mate!

[Starfire]

Heh,

This will be the 5th or so time Ive removed this engine - I'm sure it wont be too much of a hassle :)

[Starfire]

Beej just dropped off the new clutch kit - $122.

Cant really complain about that.

By the looks of it it has plenty more meat on it than the one thats in there.

[Cuzzo]

Hey,
Are you using the stock box?
How much power would it hold? And what is the weak point in the drivetrain?

[Starfire]

Are you using the stock box?
Yes, it's easier that way, besides - do you know of any other 4WD gearboxes that will bolt to a 4AG?

How much power would it hold?
No idea. Some people say that they are fragile, some say that they can handle a fair whack, all agree that they are cheap to replace :)

And what is the weak point in the drivetrain?
I'm sure that I'll find out!

[rob-ae86]

What diff does the tercel use?

[takai]

Yeah, i think Suzuki Sierra 4WD gearboxes fit.

[Sam_Q]

you think toyota just borrowed that line of gearboxes from them, or the jap company that makes it for them beter said?

well that would make them readily available

[Starfire]

The box is all toyota I believe,

Its a north south mounting box with a FWD option - really odd.

[takai]

Yeah, similar to the Subarus of the era as well.

[Starfire]

Yeah, similar to the Subarus of the era as well.

Knowing Toyota it was probably a direct rip-off :P

[7shades]

Hey guys

I'm doing this conversion as well.... do you have any more definative info on the sierra gearbox compatibility?

Any info would be greatly appreciated as I can't seem to find any.

Thanks

[Sam_Q]

instead of a custom flywheel could you of swapped the crank for a 4afe one that has 6 bolts?

[Starfire]

instead of a custom flywheel could you of swapped the crank for a 4afe one that has 6 bolts?

Because that's so much easier than getting a flywheel made!?

A 4AC one would have fit too but again more work, with a worse result than what I ended up with.

[M.J.H]

Are you using the stock box?
Yes, it's easier that way, besides - do you know of any other 4WD gearboxes that will bolt to a 4AG?

How much power would it hold?
No idea. Some people say that they are fragile, some say that they can handle a fair whack, all agree that they are cheap to replace :)

And what is the weak point in the drivetrain?
I'm sure that I'll find out!


Not much at all.
know a guy with a GZE in one and it kills boxes quite easy.

he also has it lifted as well by moving the lower arm mounts down an inch or two.

[mullett]

Hey, cool conversion! Thought about this a while ago when I noticed my mums Tercel had an 'A' series engine :D

Out of curiosity, how much to get the flywheel made up?

RM.

[Starfire]

It cost me 2 cartons of beer :)

[DeftAnesthetik]

Because that's so much easier than getting a flywheel made!?

A 4AC one would have fit too but again more work, with a worse result than what I ended up with.

86kw flywheel fits as well, doing simmilar conversion but on an AL12 (tercel FWD hatchback) engine mounts the same way, NS but still a fwd. I have a ST 20valve and ran into the regular issues (dizzy, cooling, exhaust and flywheel) for the flywheel if you get an early bigport one (200mm clutch) you can use upgraded sport parts. but saying that 2 cases of beer is much cheaper than this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=170072723509

looks like your making good progess though. keep it up. BTW wiring is going to be your most time consuming part of this project but make sure you take time and do it right the first time.

good luck

[jimmy_a]

looking forward to seeing the results?

[Starfire]

Progress on the Tercel has been a bit slow as I have been working on a lot of other cars, mostly for Jordan, as well as trying to get my TA22 running with a rebuilt engine.

I have stripped all the panels from it and have managed to find a new hatch (the one I had was full of rust!).

Once the Celica is on the road the focus will shift back to the Tercel - Jordan owes me heaps of help :P

[Starfire]

Since I havnt updated in 12 months, it's probably about time.

It turns out that there was considerably more rust in the shell than I initially suspected. The A pillars are particularly bad but the rain channels and around the rear hatch windows arent great either.

I have decided that I need a new shell and have been keeping an eye out for a straight one at the right price.

Cheers,
Terry

[TC1600]

So when are we taking the shell to Sims?

[Starfire]

Once I find a better one. Its fine where it is for now :P