Project 6-speed

[Norbie]

After more than a year of procrastination Project 6-speed is finally underway! For those who don't know, I'm putting a Getrag V160 (JZA80 Supra TT 6-speed) into my 1984 MA61 Supra.

Progress so far isn't much but it's a start: removed the broken W58 5-speed, thoroughly degreased it (apparently the rear main seal is FUBAR) and took a few photos next to the V160. I haven't taken any proper measurements but as you can see below the 6-speed is freaking HUGE!

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/BoxComparison03.jpg

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/BoxComparison01.jpg
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/BoxComparison02.jpg
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/BoxComparison03.jpg
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/BoxComparison04.jpg
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/BoxComparison05.jpg
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/BoxComparison06.jpg

Still to come: detailed measurements and an initial test-fit. The latter will have to wait until I can get some volunteers to lend a hand - the 6-speed is as heavy as it looks! I can just barely manage a solo W58 install, but no chance with the V160.

[BlackSupra]

Haha, did you break witzl's gearbox?

[Norbie]

I'm afraid I did. It actually lasted a lot longer than I was expecting though!

[Hybrid]

Far out thats huge!.

How do you plan to tackle the different shifter postion?.. looks like there is a fair difference.

[Big rob]

How much and where do you find a a V160? Also thing that would make the conversion alot more difficult would be final ratios. As I'm sure you know the overdrive gear, 6th is only like .793 but makes up with the 3.2ish diff. What diff ratios are you going to use?

Also usefull link for putting a 2jzgte with V160 into a MKiii. May have already seen it but it does have some info on how modified the V160 shifter to suit.

http://www.turbosupras.com/pages/en/pages/technical/a70%20engine%20conversion.htm

good luck, looking forward to this.

[Norbie]

How do you plan to tackle the different shifter postion?.. looks like there is a fair difference.
Haven't given that much thought yet, I'm more worried about getting the box in the tunnel to begin with.
How much and where do you find a a V160? Also thing that would make the conversion alot more difficult would be final ratios. As I'm sure you know the overdrive gear, 6th is only like .793 but makes up with the 3.2ish diff. What diff ratios are you going to use?
The box was about $3k (bare) which I sourced from ImportBitz. I'll need to buy about $500 worth of stuff new from Toyota to get the crazy clutch mechanism working, it's way more complicated than the W58.

The overdrive ratio is nearly the same as the W58 so I can't see that being a problem. I currently have a 3.58:1 final drive ratio and I have no intentions of changing it. The 3.2:1 ratio in the JZA80 gives it a theoretical top speed of more than 300km/h which is something I doubt I'll ever need! I've seen 270 and that's scary enough. :eek:

[gianttomato]

V160FTMFW

I like.

I buy.

[Big rob]

The only reason I see that there would be a need for a diffreence in comparison to a W58 is cruzing RPM. Larger capacity = more torque and therefore you can rev lower down the freeway. But I guess you have been driving with it through the W58 with similar ratios so it wont be much different.

I want to put a 2jzgte in my GZ20 and at the moment its going to be a R154. It comes with its pros and cons, mainly that stock MA70 ratios will work with it I'm just scared it may get broken. I would like the V160 but i dont know if the cost would justify it its in similar costs to an aristo half cut lol!

[Roman]

Holy crap, that's huge.

I hope you dont mind getting someone in the back seat to shift gears for you, haha.

Good luck, I think your gearbox breaking days will be over!

Well I hope so for your sake, those things arent cheap, haha.

[Phoenix01]

Still to come: detailed measurements and an initial test-fit. The latter will have to wait until I can get some volunteers to lend a hand - the 6-speed is as heavy as it looks! I can just barely manage a solo W58 install, but no chance with the V160.

*Raises hand to volunteer. :)

[jonra23]

Looks like the shifter would be reasonably easy to shift a fair way forward from where it currently is by cutting and shutting the three legged thingy (technical term) it is on.

When you need a hand give a yell, I do a 2 week roster away, if I am home will come around, not very smart but I can lift heavy things.

regards
jon

[gianttomato]

I dragged one of these fucking things up a steeply inclined driveway with my 'mate' (yes you Glenn ra45GTCelica!!) telling me what a whimp I was for not just picking it up and striding up the driveway with it. I managed to finally get it into his garage - he then attempted to pick it up only to rudely shocked by its weight.

We then grabbed some bathroom scales to find it weighed about 57kg.

He apologised.:P

[BlackSupra]

Norbie and i managed to pick it up when he was moving.

It was far from light.

[Mr Ed]

Holy shit! I knew the V160 was big, but sitting next to the W58 it looks farken nuts!!! :eek:

Watcha doing with the 'ol W58? Ive got a mate whos after the bellhousing. :)

(PICS OF NEW WORKSHOP OR BAN!) :p

[thechuckster]

... until I can get some volunteers to lend a hand - the 6-speed is as heavy as it looks! .
i'll gladly rock up, drink your beer, offer unsolicited opinions on things i have little experience with and maybe get dirty once or twice.

[Mr Ed]

^^Hey I didnt say that! :p :eek:

Yep Im keen to lend a hand too if ya like mate. Strangely enough Im good at bashin peoples cars with a sledge hammer and you may just need such a skill! :D :p

[Norbie]

Haha thanks guys, I'm hoping to give it a bash (pun intended) on Saturday so if you're free please drop by. Beer will be provided. :)

Pics of new workshop will not be forthcoming as it is currently occupied by a VL Commodore in a makeshift spraybooth, and I'm ashamed to post any such photos here. :o

[Negative Boost]

Wow, so this is the project we've been waiting for. Looks awsome and good luck with it. I'll be keeping a close eye on it and im actually very curious to see just how much sheet metal you'll have to massage under there and what you'll be doing with the shifter. I'd offer a hand if i was in queensland :p

[RObErT_RaTh]

$3000+ for a 6th gear, I have faith you'll make it worth every cent :)

[Big rob]

If you have a look at the link I posted above it shows a very very easy way to mod the shifter. Got tig?

[EldarO]

ive lifted one side of a JZZ30 subframe, and i think one of my kidneys fell out, i cant imagine what this thing would be like!

top work norbie! knowing you, you'll probably disintegrate this gearbox too :P

we must now redefine "doing a norbie"

Eldar.O.

[Norbie]

$3000+ for a 6th gear, I have faith you'll make it worth every cent :)
This has nothing to do with the extra ratio, and everything to do with the V160 being twice as strong as the W58.

I'd actually be rather impressed with myself if I managed to disintegrate a gearbox like this. Pissed off, but impressed.

[Mr Ed]

Ill be round at some point in time. I know theres something Im supposed to be doing on saturday but I cant remember atm so Ill come and annoy you instead. (Keen to see the spray booth too)

Be home around lunch time?? :)

[Norbie]

Sounds good. :)

[BlackSupra]

I'd actually be rather impressed with myself if I managed to disintegrate a gearbox like this. Pissed off, but impressed.

I would love to be there (purely to spectate) when this happens and you require a rebuild.

[UZA61]

Cool conversion! And Respect + to you :D

[Kagetsu]

If Woon can run a 9 with those gearbox's and over a 1000bhp, you should be okay...

Take up Ballet and harden up Norbie. :p

[Norbie]

With the help of a few handy Toymodders I jammed a V160 into the transmission tunnel today. It's looking like it might not be a big deal making it fit - it fouled the side of the tunnel but only at the back of the box, there appears to be plenty of room everywhere else! Wilbo also came up with a crazy plan to use a W58 shifter housing on the V160 which might allow the shifter to be in about the same place as a stock MA61 transmission, which would be very convenient indeed.

Anyway if I can find the motivation I'm going to get under the car again tomorrow, grab a big hammer and bash it good. Stay tuned for updates! :)

[gianttomato]

Remember the slide hammer from inside option too mate.

[Negative Boost]

Wow, thats pretty awsome! But where are the pictures!

[gwh1946]

Hi,Does anyone know what year celica this motor belongs to ST204 3SGE ? I presume it is a 2 ltr ?

[Norbie]

Hi does anyone know what year celica the ST204 3SGE belongs to ? I presume it is a 2 ltr ?
WTF? This has no relevance to MA61 6-speed conversions, start your own damn thread. :p
Wow, thats pretty awsome! But where are the pictures!
I'll get some pics when I've done something worth taking photos of! So far I've only bashed the tunnel out a few mm.

Good idea with the slide hammer GT, I'll give that a try if I have problems with the BFH method. Hopefully I won't need it though, I'm trying to do this without pulling the interior apart.

Oh and I've taken some detailed measurements of the W58 and I'm in the process of making a basic CAD drawing of its external dimensions. Later I'll do the same with the V160 so I can overlay both drawings and get an idea of exactly where the V160 is bigger than the W58. Should be fairly useful info, I don't think I've seen anything like this done before. Maybe I can find someone to do the same thing with an R154 too?

[gianttomato]

Maybe I can find someone to do the same thing with an R154 too?
Didn't Stenno do this when he dropped the 2JZ into the cursed MA70?

[Norbie]

Looks like he was going to but didn't get around to it:
http://www.turbosupras.com/pages/en/pages/technical/R154.htm

However he did take a lot of V160 measurements which is useful:
http://www.turbosupras.com/pages/en/pages/technical/V160.htm

[Draven]

signing up.
I want to see this happen :)

[gianttomato]

Well, I do have one of each so I could snap some pics (well as soon as I get my V160 down from Sydney....)
Maybe someone could do the CAD smarts (I am teH suck at computaz).

[Norbie]

More pics:
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/TestFit05.jpg

As you can see the box is mostly in the tunnel, but there are clearance issues towards the rear. Unfortunately there are also fuel and brake lines in the way, and I don't think there's any way I can make this happen without relocating them. With a PITA. :(

Currently I can get the box within about 2 inches of its proper position, and to get it any further I'll need to beat (or possibly cut) the sides of the tunnel out. I suspect this won't be enough to get the box fully into position though - it looks like the rear of the box is going to foul the top of the tunnel once I jack it up further. If this happens my plan is to remove the top section of the tunnel around the shifter hole, which as you can see in one of the pics is a separate piece spot-welded onto the tunnel. By drilling out these welds I can remove a large part of the tunnel and give myself lots of extra headroom, then later on I can close the gap with a new piece.

You can also see how the shifter linkage is in almost exactly the right position with the external linkage mechanism removed. If I can find a way to graft a W58 shifter housing directly on top of that I'll be cheering. This is something I'll investigate closely once the box is in position.

Stay tuned for more updates, I'm going to start butchering the tunnel on the weekend. :D

[The Witzl]

Norbie!

I'll be up in brissy on the 15th/16th/17th december. If you come pick me up from Redcliffe on the friday nite, i'll happily drink your beer, laugh at your efforts, swear at teh freaken heavy box, bash things good with hammers, and tell you that you should use an 18R-G instead.

It would be teh rox0rs.

I expect you to be 90% done by then.

[Norbie]

Sounds good to me. I'm actually planning to drive to Childers (approx 400km) on the 24th December so it better be more than 90% done by then! I'll be an unhappy camper if I have to drive the Orange Eyesore all that way.

[Mr Ed]

I work in Redcliffe. I can pick you up and drop you at Norbie place if you like. (As long as you can handle teh 2jz powarzz) :D

Off to drink beer and go bowling on the Gold Coats afterwards, otherwise Id hang around and bash some stuff with you but I'll pop in and have a squiz anyways. :D

[Mr Ed]

Unfortunately there are also fuel and brake lines in the way, and I don't think there's any way I can make this happen without relocating them. With a PITA. :(

Would you need to upgrade to a bigger fuel line for a big single anyway?? (I would assume a 600hp+ 2JZ requires a shitload more fuel flow than what the 5M system was designed to deal with! :p

[Norbie]

Highly unlikely the fuel lines will cause a restriction - a sufficiently large pump will just jam the fuel down the lines at higher pressure. If I do run into problems with fuel delilvery I'll just use the return line as a second feed line, then run a new line for the return.

I'm considering the possibility of cutting the lines at the start of the tunnel and at the point after it leaves the tunnel, then re-connecting them with sections of braided hose. Can anyone see a major problem with this plan? It would be a shitload easier than replacing the hard lines altogether!

[Mr Ed]

Major part of the cost of braided lines is the fittings though, if you went for a whole new line instead it might only be an extra $50 or so.

[Norbie]

OK another update. The upper section of the tunnel around the shifter hole has been removed (read: butchered) so I now have a huge hole in the top of the tunnel which should allow plenty of room for the taller box to poke through. I was hoping that removing the section would make the tunnel flexible enough to be widened where it's fouling the box, but alas Toyota made the floorpan extremely rigid with thick sheet and lots of ribbing - it's just not going to move enough. Also there's no getting around it, the fuel and brake lines will have to be completely removed and new ones fabricated at a later date. :(

I'll upload some more photos tonight, the remains of the butchered upper tunnel are especially amusing. :) It's amazing what you can acheive with a drift, a chisel and an assortment of large hammers.

My mission for this week is to remove the fuel and brake lines (this will be messy) and strip the interior; I hoped I wouldn't have to do this, but there will be welding involved so the carpet and tar stuff on the floorpan will have to be removed. Next weekend it's out with the grinder and I'll be cutting slots on either side of the tunnel - this will be the only way to get it wide enough.

Once everything is sufficiently bent and the box is in place I'll weld steel plate over the gaps and hopefully it will be as strong as when it left the factory. I'm also thinking about bending some steel tube into a U shape and welding it over the tunnel fore and aft of the shifter - not sure if this is overkill though?

This project is starting to get messy, but realistically there was always going to be pain involved. I suppose this is the price you pay for doing something out of the ordinary.

[JustCallMeOrlando]

Things like this make me glad i've not chosen such a torquey engine :P

[JustenGT8]

Definitely remove the interior, i tried to short cut and used a few spatter blankets to cover everything....a spatter ball still managed to roll thru a gap and the whole car nearly went up, luckily just cost me the carpet and the drivers side door trim...phew.

Toyo are good with their chassis' eh.....on the GT8 i had 5 separate floor pan pressings to get thru....it was like one of those bloody Russian dolls

[Norbie]

Toyo are good with their chassis' eh.....on the GT8 i had 5 separate floor pan pressings to get thru....it was like one of those bloody Russian dolls
LOL

For the most part I'd say it's great Toyota engineer their cars so well, but right at the moment it's pissing me off. :mad:

I know what you mean about the multiple layers - I remember looking at my Aristo front cut where it had been cut through the A pillar. I thought it would just be a hollow tube but no, there's layers and layers of steel in there! Crazy shit.

[JustenGT8]

two words - plasma cutter :)

[thechuckster]

can i also suggest some degreasing of the underside of the car - dirt mixed with engine oil is surprising flamable (and smokey) in the presence of oxy-torches and mig wilders.

[thechuckster]

suggestion for widening the tunnel? sit hydraulic jack sideways in the tunnel then 'lift' the jack... like a ghetto jaws-of-life device?

[Norbie]

Underside of the car has already been thoroughly degreased, it was unbelievably messy under there thanks to a busted rear main seal I didn't know about.

Good thinking with the jack idea but I already thought of that - and it did SFA surprisingly. :(

[Mr Ed]

Make wit teh pics already! :D

[Alchemist]

Yup keen to see pics too.

They are great boxes to use, well worth the pain once you get it in :)

Big Rob, there are a few(V160s) for sale over at Supraforums.com.au at the moment.

Weigh about 54Kgs if I remember rightly...

[Norbie]

OK here are the pics. I'm in the process of changing web hosts (again :rolleyes: ) so if the pics don't show up they will in a day or so.

Bash this good:
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/TunnelMods07.jpg

Until you're left with a nice big hole:
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/TunnelMods11.jpg

And this somewhat munted shifter hole:
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/TunnelMods14.jpg

I shoulda been a wrecker I tells ya!

More pics here:
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/

[Draven]

I like your selection of persuaders... I might need to make a new purchase :P

[kanazai2001]

OK here are the pics. I'm in the process of changing web hosts (again :rolleyes: ) so if the pics don't show up they will in a day or so.

Bash this good:
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/TunnelMods07.jpg

Until you're left with a nice big hole:
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/TunnelMods11.jpg

And this somewhat munted shifter hole:
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/TunnelMods14.jpg

I shoulda been a wrecker I tells ya!

More pics here:
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/


:eek: i plan to do the same thing like u have done here... my 6sp tranny shifter is gone too far toward the handbrake too... how many inche toward handbrake u have cut?! did u hurt the handbrake side crossmember in the passenger compartment? :confused:

[mark_vdh]

With the help of a few handy Toymodders I jammed a V160 into the transmission tunnel today. It's looking like it might not be a big deal making it fit - it fouled the side of the tunnel but only at the back of the box, there appears to be plenty of room everywhere else! Wilbo also came up with a crazy plan to use a W58 shifter housing on the V160 which might allow the shifter to be in about the same place as a stock MA61 transmission, which would be very convenient indeed.

Anyway if I can find the motivation I'm going to get under the car again tomorrow, grab a big hammer and bash it good. Stay tuned for updates! :)

found this on another site, V160 into a MX73, the MX73 and MA61 are very similar yeah? so this might work?
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/mark_vdh/6speed/resimg08062ln.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/mark_vdh/6speed/resimg08071mt.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/mark_vdh/6speed/picture0246dn.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/mark_vdh/6speed/picture0135bc.jpg
R154 v's V160
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/mark_vdh/6speed/r154vsv1602resized3pi8rv.jpg

[Mr Ed]

With the car being that close to the ground, Im guessing its pretty hard to swing a hammer properly......let alone a big one!

Maybe some form of big farken steel bar (see: crowbar) held up to where bashing is needed, and hit with a sledge hammer from next to the car??? :)

(Will provide video camera so if damage occurs funniest-home-videos to reimburse costs)

[JustCallMeOrlando]

MX73 and MA61 are similar yes, but the 73 has the shifter further back. You'd have to go further forward still to get it to line up.

[Norbie]

how many inche toward handbrake u have cut?! did u hurt the handbrake side crossmember in the passenger compartment? :confused:
I haven't actually cut anything yet, I've just removed a separate section of pressed steel which was spot-welded to the top of the tunnel.
found this on another site, V160 into a MX73, the MX73 and MA61 are very similar yeah? so this might work?
Yeah I've already seen that. It would probably work but I want the shifter further forward, if I can manage it.

[kanazai2001]

I haven't actually cut anything yet, I've just removed a separate section of pressed steel which was spot-welded to the top of the tunnel.

Yeah I've already seen that. It would probably work but I want the shifter further forward, if I can manage it.


thanks for ur precious advice... i know what to do next for my tranny... :)

[MR 1JZ]

subscribing...I like watching things get bashed, bent and welded :)

[kanazai2001]

this is what i done to my J160 6sp tranny...

before...
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p28/kanazai2001/3SGE/ori-setting01.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p28/kanazai2001/3SGE/ori-setting03.jpg


after...
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p28/kanazai2001/3SGE/new-setting01.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p28/kanazai2001/3SGE/new-setting02.jpg


next will be on the tunnel shifter opening... :cool:

thanks norb for the precious tech info... :)

[Norbie]

Thanks for the photos. It looks like the J160 has a convenient second shifter position - if only it were so easy with the V160!

I've just finished completely removing the fuel lines and rear brake lines from the Supra. What a horrible stinky messy job, I was covered in fuel and brake fluid most of the time. I was also somewhat shocked to discover the main fuel line had been crushed right near the bellhousing, to the point where it looks like it was 90% blocked. Hopefully this happened as a result of my V160 test-fit and wasn't like that when I was driving the car! :eek:

Tomorrow night it's out with the seats and carpet, then I'm ready to get busy with the grinder. I'm scared. :o

[Mos]

Thanks for the photos. It looks like the J160 has a convenient second shifter position - if only it were so easy with the V160!

Yeah, the 6 cylinder engines place the gearbox further back in the car, using the forward shifter mount, with the 4 cylinder gearbox using the rear mounts to move the box forward.

Mos.

[kanazai2001]

hi... norb...
im thinking bout doing what u have done to the shifter opening... this is what i have done... but doesnt look good at all... pls advise...
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p28/kanazai2001/3SGE/up-tunnel.jpg

im so curious... how u push ur 2JZ so close to the firewall without hitting the clutch pump?! i have 4 cylinders engine try to push it closer but it hits the clutch pump... :(

[JustenGT8]

this is what i done to my J160 6sp tranny...

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p28/kanazai2001/3SGE/new-setting02.jpg


With both hands in sight, what are you taking the piccie with??? Freaky :D

[Norbie]

im so curious... how u push ur 2JZ so close to the firewall without hitting the clutch pump?! i have 4 cylinders engine try to push it closer but it hits the clutch pump... :(
You mean the clutch master cylinder? I actually had to use a different master cylinder (from a Ford Escort I think) and mounted it at a ~30 degree angle to get clearance. It's very close but it just fits. :)

[kanazai2001]

With both hands in sight, what are you taking the piccie with??? Freaky :D

heehehehe... with my "3rd hand"... :D
actually im the one who took the pix... my friend fixed the bolts n nuts...

[Norbie]

I'm happy to help with your problem but perhaps you should start your own thread? This thread is supposed to be about my 6-speed conversion into an MA61 Supra.

[kanazai2001]

moved to here (http://toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?p=297019)...

[Robbos_Toyotas]

use an oxy to widen the tunnel, thats what i did to make the r154 - fuck cutting and shutting the tunnel!

takes literally about 5 minutes to make it bigger with an oxy and hammer....

[Norbie]

We spent a few hours butchering the tunnel over the weekend, but it soon became clear that no amount of bashing or bending was going to get us the required result. The place where the tunnel needs to be widened is very strong and much too narrow, so even with the help of an oxy we wouldn't be able to do it - well not without a ridiculous amount of effort. I should mention that I'm being assisted by a friend who's a sheetmetal fabricator by trade, so these are the opinions of an expert. :)

Anyway, we abandoned the Big Hammer Method and fired up the grinder instead. When I started this project I was pretty sure we'd have to cut things, and sure enough here we are. Much of the tunnel around the shifter hole has been removed, which sounds pretty nasty but it's nowhere near as bad as removing the entire tunnel which is what I originally thought we'd be up for! Here's what the tunnel looks like now:

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/Cutting08.jpg

And here's what's left over:

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/Cutting11.jpg

:eek: :eek: It's a bit scary at this stage but I need to have faith that it will all come together in the end. The important thing is the box actually fits now and I can jack it up all the way into the tunnel, so the next step is to get it properly mounted and then we can work on rebuilding the tunnel with new steel shaped to fit around the uber-box. With any luck this will be well underway next weekend, so watch this space! :)

[MR 1JZ]

damn thats a big hole...as you said though...at least she fits and you can get on with the mounting etc

[Negative Boost]

Awsome stuff norbie, helps to have a sheet metal fabricator as a friend!

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

I dare ya to fit the trim and carpet in an attempt to hide the hole :P

looking good dude, shouldn't be hard to fab around the box now.

[Norbie]

Actually the centre console would hide pretty much everything I've done. Not sure about its structural integrity though...

[Mr Ed]

Looks good mate! What have you got planned for the tail shaft? Modifying the current one, or going for a new bigger one?

Just duct tape those pieces back in there when youve got it all mounted. Easy! :)

[Norbie]

Looks good mate! What have you got planned for the tail shaft? Modifying the current one, or going for a new bigger one?
The old tailshaft was never an option; the V160 has a flange mount, as opposed to the slip yoke with the W58. I've already sold the old tailshaft and I'll be getting a new one fabricated, or possibly modifying something from a later-model Toyota with a similar flange arrangement (eg Prado seems to have exactly what I need).

[Mr Ed]

Prado would be very convenient......if you find one in a quite street you dont even need to jack it up to get at the shaft! :D

[-==L=a=N=c=E==-]

prado tailshaft would be fairly chunky as well yes?

[Norbie]

Yes, like all Toyota commercials/4WD's it has a very substantial drivetrain, and the tailshaft is no exception. With the exception of the front flange mount it looked very similar to the Hilux 2-piece I'd been using with the W58.

[JustenGT8]

That's not a hole Norbie, the attached pic shows how it should be done :) actually ended up a little bigger again.....and another of the finished product complete with C-channel bracing tediously cut to shape. Amazingly all the stock trim went back in.

[JustenGT8]

oh yeah i forgot to mention that you should try and spec your replacement material so as to achieve similar flex/stiffness with what was there. I think we used 1.6mm sheet which is thicker than the stock sheet but similar strength as the stock sheet is formed.

If you go too stiff then you run the chance of tears developing along the welds as the rest of the chassis flexs a round the immoveable bit. make sense?

[Norbie]

LOL you munted it good! Methinks your project was a little more extreme than mine though. ;)

Thanks far the advice, yes it makes perfect sense and I'll be sure to pass that on.

[rbman]

Yeah lucky you had a sheety freind... ;)...

Where are the pics of the gearbox jacked into the cut floor pan?, or was hte camera out of batteries by then...

[Norbie]

I don't know why I didn't get any photos of that, I probably forgot about it until it was too late. Not to worry, hopefully I'll have photos of the box actually bolted up next weekend. :D

[Norbie]

Hooray, the box is bolted up to the engine and in its final position - it doesn't foul anything!

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/FinalPosition02.jpg

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/FinalPosition04.jpg
(More photos here (http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/default.htm)).

Next I need to bolt up the crossmember to the floorpan, which hopefully will be sorted tomorrow. The rear mounting points on the floorpan almost line up with the front bolt holes in the JZA80 alloy crossmember, so a bit of fiddling with the die grinder should have it 50% there. The other bolt holes will have to be attached with some sort of bracketry which I'll probably fabricate out of a couple of bits of flat steel bar bent to shape. The crossmember is also about 10mm below the bolt holes so I'll need to take up the slack with washers or something.

Slowly getting there! :D

[Draven]

news on making the shifter happen?

or is taht getting a bit ahead of ourselves? :)

[Norbie]

Yeah I'm not too concerned about that just yet - first to get the box in, then worry about how I'm going to shift gears. :)

[RyleyMA61]

looks great norbie, subscribing now!

[Negative Boost]

Heck yeh, thats awsome. Good side on pics too, shows just how big that box is!

[triptek]

I feel sorry for ya mate. Just fitted my R154 up this last weekend, i thought that was a struggle.

[Draven]

that looks like it's hanging low and lazy... any ideas on if it's any lower than the w58?

[Norbie]

Just finished bolting up the transmission with the newly fabricated crossmember spacers, and yes it does look like it's hanging pretty low. This is more or less inevitable given the design of the JZA80 crossmember, which is obviously designed with a "deeper" tunnel in mind. Once the whole thing is together I'll have to take some measurements and compare it to a MA61 with a more conventional drivetrain setup.

Anyway, progress is being made! The next order of business is getting the shifter at least mocked up so we can figure out where the hole needs to be in the tunnel. Hopefully this will be done on the weekend.

[Kagetsu]

Anyway, progress is being made! The next order of business is getting the shifter at least mocked up so we can figure out where the hole needs to be in the tunnel. Hopefully this will be done on the weekend.

The 507th lateral is where the hole needs to be. :p

Seriously Norbie, this is turning out great! I'm sure you're keen as hell to actually get it working. Be sure to check the box has oil in her. ^_^' Don't want to go ruining it before running properly.

[Norbie]

LOL that's sound advice. I have to admit I've done silly little things like that before, although it's never cost me $3k yet. :eek: One thing I like about the V160 is it's completely sealed; anyone who's removed a W58 will tell you they leak oil all over the place, no matter how long you drain it first! :mad:

Tonight I'm going to attach the V160 shifter mechanism and see how it compares with the original shifter location (if it will fit at all). Stay tuned, pics will be forthcoming. :)

[grahamd]

On my IS200 I had to shorten the shifter mechanism on my V160 by 55mm to fit but at least with an external shifter it is possible.

[Draven]

That's great news norbie!
I had been waiting to do a gbox oil change until I was doing the clutch, but sounds like I can change it now without the babyshit/wet-dog used gbox oil going everywhere.

[cambelt]

Hey norbs , the tailshaft flange that fits is from a 10/85 onwards FJ or HJ 60 landcruiser
the prado one i think is the same as a hilux and wont fit , the uni on the cruiser is bigger again than a hilux one
Dave

[Norbie]

OK thanks for the info Dave, very useful! :)

[Norbie]

On my IS200 I had to shorten the shifter mechanism on my V160 by 55mm to fit but at least with an external shifter it is possible.
Do you have any photos of this? I tried fitting my V160 shifter today and there's no possibly way it will work, but 55mm shorter could maybe work.

[grahamd]

Here's some photos.
Standard shifter arrangement
V160 arrives (http://www.lexusownersclub.com/gallery/albums/album01/GD02_Engine_Getrag_V160_gearbox.jpg)

Shortened shifter
Shortened Shifter (http://www.lexusownersclub.com/gallery/albums/album01/GD06_Short_Shifter_001.jpg)

Fitted on box
Shifter (http://www.lexusownersclub.com/gallery/albums/album01/GD07_Gearbox_Shifter_001.jpg)

Landcruiser front tailshaft including spline
New tailshaft (http://www.lexusownersclub.com/gallery/albums/album01/GD09_Splined_Tailshaft_001.jpg)

Cheers
Graham

[Norbie]

Excellent, thanks for that grahamd! +rep

[Norbie]

OK update time. Here's the completed adapters/spacers for the JZA80 crossmember:
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/Crossmember03.jpg

So with the gearbox properly attached it was time to get the shifter working. With some crafty engineering a W58 selector bush was modified to fit on the V160 selector shaft like this:
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/ShifterMods04.jpg

This was all looking very nice and was going to work quite well - until I mated up the shifter and realised I'm an IDIOT. While this mechanism certainly will change gears, it will result in a reversed H-pattern - so 1st gear will be on the right and 6th gear on the left. It's kinda hard to explain why this is the case until you actually look at both shifter mechanisms side by side, but suffice to say this plan isn't going to work and I wasted all this time for nothing. :(

So now it's back to plan A, shortening the V160 shifter mechanism just like grahamd did in the photos posted earlier. I need to shorten mine at least 80mm as opposed to the 55mm he did, so hopefully that's actually possible. We should know in the next week or so.

BAH!! So damn frustrating. :mad:

[Draven]

norbie.net be teh suck

[The Witzl]

progress goes well shiftone

good luck with the shifter links too :)

[stevevp]

clearances with the rotating flange may stop this but rotating the W5x selector 180 deg on the shaft will return the pattern to the correct sequence.

[Norbie]

True it would, but I'd have to extend the shifter so far to reach it I'd have a throw of 0.5mm between gears. :)

[The Witzl]

hahaha - he said rotating flange.

[EldarO]

True it would, but I'd have to extend the shifter so far to reach it I'd have a throw of 0.5mm between gears. :)

short shift gone mad?

Eldar.O.

[stevevp]

Gee, I go away for a year and look what happens :D The membership status from the old forums should be transferable ;)

Norbie, I was wondering if there was enough space between the flange on the output shaft and the rear housing to drop the pivot ball of the shifter down as well as flipping the selector socket - this would need a custom piece, but a few of them cnc machined to place the shifter in the same position as a w5x rear mount would be great for others doing conversions.

[Norbie]

I suppose this may be possible, but there's not a huge amount of clearance to the output shaft flange so it could be a bit tight. In any event it seems like more effort than I'm willing to invest right now so I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader. ;)

[Talasas]

That's a pretty big task you've undertaken. But I'm sure it'll all be worth it. Great work. Keep the pics coming.

[Norbie]

Hooray, modified shifter version 2.0 is finished! It's basically the same as grahamd's photos above, but shortened 80mm instead of 55mm. Seems to work fine, but obviously I won't be able to test it properly until the car can be driven.

The mission for this weekend is to get the V160 back in the car (again :rolleyes: ), confirm the shortened shifter actually fits, and then we can get get started on putting the transmission tunnel back together. Things are looking up! :)

I'm still waiting for a quote on the clutch-related parts I need, and then I'll have to wait for them to be shipped from the US, so even when the modifications are complete it will be a few weeks at least before I can send the car off for its new tailshaft and go for the first test drive. Probably longer with the christmas/new year period coming up. :(

[MR 1JZ]

norbie, call adelaide clutch services on (08) 8300 5000 they can most likely have something to you by next monday if you tell them exactly what your after.

[Norbie]

I already have a clutch, what I don't have is all the other V160-specific bits (fork, slave cylinder, bearing hub, various spring washers etc) which AFAIK are only available from Toyota. Unlike a W58 you can't just go to the wreckers and grab all the bits you need off an RA60 or something. :(

[MR 1JZ]

ahhh fair enough...good luck with that quest then :(

[Mr Ed]

I is well impressed you got that shifter sorted already! :D

Apart from the whole waiting bit the rest of the job should be a piece of piss! Are you going to adapt that JZA80 bracket plate or just go full custom??

[JustenGT8]

Nice work Norbie, seemed to be easily solved. So does that mean the shifter support bracket was cut and shut?

[Norbie]

Are you going to adapt that JZA80 bracket plate or just go full custom??
The what now? :confused:
Nice work Norbie, seemed to be easily solved. So does that mean the shifter support bracket was cut and shut?
Certainly does. It looks a bit dodgy but who cares, it won't be visible. I'll post some pics later.

[The Witzl]

Norbie - have you contact our mate in NZ about the Toyota specific parts? No doubt they have them there in stock!!

[Mr Ed]

The what now? :confused:
The bit you asked about in this thread: http://www.supraforums.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=25537

[Norbie]

Ah that thing! Nah I've decided to go custom with the sheetmetal changes; the MkIV tunnel is shaped quite differently (wider and flatter at the top) so it probably wouldn't work anyway.

[Esteban]

Norbie if you need those parts at cost price, I might be able to help you, buuuut, the wait could be offensive as at a guess they'd have to come from japan. You have a copy of the EPC dont you?

[Norbie]

I have a list of all the part numbers I need. If I forward these to you could you get me a quote? I'd be very much obliged. :)

[Norbie]

OK update time! I re-installed the V160 tonight with newly modified shifter assembly installed. Everything fits, no clearance problems, and I can engage all 7 gears no worries. Sorted!! :D

Here's the mega-shortened shifter bracket and extension rod thingy:
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/ShifterMods06.jpg

Here it is installed on the V160:
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/ShifterMods10.jpg

And here it is mounted in the car:
http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/ShifterMods14.jpg

More photos here (http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/).

As you can see the base of the shifter is a couple of inches higher than the transmission tunnel, so I'm not sure how we'll get the tunnel welded together and make it all neat... but that's a job for next week. I haven't taken any measurements yet but I'd say the shifter will be about 2" further back than the original, which isn't too bad really. Hopefully I can still use the original centre console without hacking it too much.

But who cares, the hard stuff is done and everything is looking great! Norbie = happy. :D

[Negative Boost]

Looking WonDerFull! Thats pretty dam impressive work you've done there. I'm looking forward to seeing how you'll go about the tunnel fabrication. 2 inches further back for the shifter should be about perfect too i think. I find my shifter a little too far forward.

[JustenGT8]

Just step the tunnel up Norbs or leave alot of clearance around the shifter or leave the floorpan weld seam as it and bring the new tunnel off the lateral cahssis rail...i don't see anything that tricky from your pics?

Do me a favour though eh...take the shifter support to someone who can weld alloy ;) I know i'm spoilt having access to a primo welder but jeez i hate dodgy looking welds.

Nice work all up and impressive turnaround once you started cutting :)

[Norbie]

Yeah I know the welds aren't pretty, my welding guy does stainless all day and isn't used to alloy. But as long as it holds together I don't care, like I said it will all be invisible once the centre console is back on.

Progress has been pretty good but I wish I could have got it done in time for christmas... I have a 4 hour drive to see the folks and now I'll have to do it in the Orange Eyesore. That's 4 hours of droning 2.5" exhaust and engine bay heat, I can't wait. :(

[Esteban]

I've had a good run hiring cars for trips like that. Sometimes you can even get a newer model toyota...

[grahamd]

Well done. With that short a shifter bet you can't put the bottom rubber seal on - don't really need it anyway. It was just to keep the grit out of the linkage bushes.

Someone should manufacture an adjustable shifter mechanism as everyone alters the length for conversions.

Now for the panel work !!!!!

[Mr Ed]

I have a list of all the part numbers I need. If I forward these to you could you get me a quote? I'd be very much obliged. :)
In the meantime maybe post your parts list up in the WTB section? Who knows, you might get lucky!

[Norbie]

Well done. With that short a shifter bet you can't put the bottom rubber seal on - don't really need it anyway. It was just to keep the grit out of the linkage bushes.
What is this bottom rubber seal you speak of? I don't think my box came with anything like that, only the rubber boot which is part of the shifter.

[The Witzl]

Progress has been pretty good but I wish I could have got it done in time for christmas... I have a 4 hour drive to see the folks and now I'll have to do it in the Orange Eyesore. That's 4 hours of droning 2.5" exhaust and engine bay heat, I can't wait. :(

Do i hear a whistle tip?

[Gibbon]

What is this bottom rubber seal you speak of? I don't think my box came with anything like that, only the rubber boot which is part of the shifter.

This one possibly?

http://i12.tinypic.com/2czold5.jpg

[grahamd]

Yes - that's the one. It covers the linkage bushes to stop any grit getting into them.
It's a real pain to get on when there's heaps of room so would be very difficult with the shortened shaft.

[oldcorollas]

you going to weld up the legs at the back? or leave em hanging....?

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/ShifterMods06.jpg

[Norbie]

Yes - that's the one. It covers the linkage bushes to stop any grit getting into them.
It's a real pain to get on when there's heaps of room so would be very difficult with the shortened shaft.
Ah, now you mention it I did have something like that, but you're right it's going to be damn near impossible to get it on now!
you going to weld up the legs at the back? or leave em hanging....?
Actually they're just in the way so they're going to get chopped off.

[Mos]

you going to weld up the legs at the back? or leave em hanging....?Actually they're just in the way so they're going to get chopped off. You're not concerned the other two will break?
You've made yourself quite a bit of a lever there - just curious if you're as excessively gentle on your shifter as you are on the remainder of the drivetrain?

Mos.

[JustenGT8]

I'm with Mos on this one mate...i've been in the car with you and i give that shifter a week unless you wack in some extra bracing. Just use some plate as gussets to tie the long legs back to the shifter housing....looks like you'll just have to lop off 20-30mm of the end then and it'll be solid as.

[Norbie]

Hmmm, you guys may have a point there. I'll see if I can find someone who's a bit more experienced with alloy welding... maybe I'll go hassle RZ. :)

[The Witzl]

so.... any 6speed love Mr Kime?

[Norbie]

Clutch parts are being ordered, the clutch itself is being built by Direct Clutch, and the floorpan welding is scheduled for this weekend - although my new toy might be a bit of a distraction, so don't be surprised if I end up getting nothing done. ;)

I'm not in a big hurry now that I have a new drive car, but I do intend to have this completed in plenty of time for Dubbo.

[Mr Ed]

What you mean is youre in an even bigger hurry now cos your new toy takes up the entire garage! :p

[Alchemist]

You have to drive the Century to Dubbo! It'll be more comfortable, and just so damn cool. Although an MA61 with 2J is also very cool...you have a hard call to make :D

[whatthe?]

Tow MA61 with said V12 luxobarge, no decision, easy :)

[love ke70]

ill drive one down for you.
serious offer :)

[Mr Ed]

Just put the Supra in the boot of the Century ;)

[Norbie]

LOL it would nearly fit I think!

It's a tough choice, 2JZ 6-speed MkII or V12 Century. I know which one would be more comfortable on the 10-hour trip, but I also know which one will run a better 1/8th mile!

[MR 1JZ]

sorry am I missing something...norbs did you buy a 1GZ Cenny?

[Draven]

http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16705

[The Witzl]

I've already tried to make Norbie get a special removable towbar made up for the century to tow the celica-supra to dubbo, however he thinks it a bad idea.

This means there might have to be some elaborate driving scheme hatched to get the two cars to dubbo.

[Draven]

I'm sure there'll be no shortage of volunteers to drive either the century or the ma61 :)

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

... i'll put my hand up to drive either one !! :D

any update Norbie on the progress?

[Norbie]

No updates sorry. I was planning to get the welding done on the weekend but I kinda got distracted by other things. My mission this week is to buy a bottle of Effen vodka so I can bribe the welding guy - you gotta know how to deal with tradies! ;)

Still haven't heard about my new clutch, but Direct Clutch are notorious for being slow. :rolleyes:

[Mr Ed]

What sort of clutch are you putting in?

[thechuckster]

one that stronger than Norbie's left-foot enthusiasm?

[Norbie]

I picked up the clutch this morning - it's a stock PP with increased clamp, and a normal organic drive plate. It's interesting to note that Peter Butler has the same setup but with a 7-puck drive plate, so considering I have less than half the power he does it should hold up fine.

[Draven]

norbie: who made your clutch? that peter butler setup sounds like exactly what I need :)

[Mr Ed]

so considering I currently have less than half the power he does it should hold up fine.
Fixed! ;)

Peter Bulter = RZ on PF??

[thechuckster]

Peter Bulter = RZ on PF = Butler Metalcraft on the coast.

[Mr Ed]

Peter Bulter = RZ on PF = Butler Metalcraft on the coast.
=petespipes on here?

[Norbie]

norbie: who made your clutch? that peter butler setup sounds like exactly what I need :)
Direct Clutch in Albion.

[wilbo666]

=petespipes on here?

-ve, different people.

Cheers
Wilbo

[thechuckster]

tho both are very charming folk.

[Norbie]

OK, thanks to Townie (aka welding guy) the tunnel is mostly done. Sure it doesn't look too pretty, but it's strong so that's the main thing.

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/NewTunnel17.jpg

More photos here (http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/).

The gearbox will be coming out in the next week or two, depending when Mr Toyota decides to send me the parts I ordered, at which point I'll paint the tunnel inside and out with etch primer, then cover it in that nasty black tar stuff, then fill the remaining small gaps with some kind of goo, then paint over the top. Once the carpet goes back you won't see most of the new sections of tunnel, and the centre console will cover what's left. As you can see from the photos the console doesn't quite fit properly and will need to be hacked a bit to accomodate the new shifter position, but that's not a big deal for me. Me have six speed, me happy. :D

Now I just have to pull a wad of cash out of my ass so I can afford a new tailshaft and custom fuel lines.

[Draven]

and find a new home for your handbrake? or will it still be ok in 4th?

[Norbie]

Nah the handbrake will be fine - you can see it in the photo above under the tarp, and there's not a lot of travel in the shifter so it won't even come close.

[Viper]

Looking nice Mr. Norbie.

Hows the positioning with the drivers seat?
Still reasonably comfortable?

[Draven]

it should be good - the ma61 shifter was always a bit too far foward :)
sounds like the mods to the centre console will be minimal too... a very neat & easy conversion then! (if you, you know, ignore the whole rebuilding of the tranny tunnel :))

[-==L=a=N=c=E==-]

all great conversions require some degree of cutting.... :D

[Norbie]

Hows the positioning with the drivers seat?
Still reasonably comfortable?
You'll notice in the photos that the seats have been removed, so it's sorta hard to tell right now. :) It's not a big change though so I doubt it will be a problem.

[Negative Boost]

Awsome work! Looks like you'll be enjoying 6 speed goodness shortly.

[Esteban]

Parts should arrive any day now ... :-)

[The Witzl]

You'll notice in the photos that the seats have been removed, so it's sorta hard to tell right now. :) It's not a big change though so I doubt it will be a problem.

you are also about 4ft tall.... so bringing the shifter closer wont be a problem for you.

[Alchemist]

Yup, the throw on the V160/1 is really short anyway, looking good :) Now you can join the club of confusing people who get in your car and try to put it in R :) (not that I let very many people drive my car....)

[Draven]

it's even worse when you hop in a 5-speed and just as you hit 110 on the motorway you *almost* go to shift into 6th, which is actually reverse :P

[Mos]

It's funny when a gated auto confuses ppl.

On topic - nice work, wish I had one :)

Mos.

[Alchemist]

Yup :) Seriously the sexiest GB in a Toyota I reckon, even if they didn't make it. Just so smooth & short, it can be a little noisy, but who cares :) and 5th is perfect for cruising around at 60 and 6th is great around 80....can get on a freeway put it in 6th and just drive for hours....

[Mos]

5th is perfect for cruising around at 60 and 6th is great around 80....can get on a freeway put it in 6th and just drive for hours....
I'm pretty sure that's your diff ratio and not the box itself.

Mos.

[Alchemist]

I'm pretty sure that's your diff ratio and not the box itself.

Mos.

Yes you are probably right(cause you can pull engines apart :)), but it's still a sexy box :)

[love ke70]

this is a V160 right?
the gear ratio of 5 and 6 in the V160 are almost identical to 4th and 5th in a W58...
1.000 and 1.000
.790 for the V160 and .783 for the W58.
so yes it will be the diff ratio, but the gearbox, having the same ratios as the W58, ensure the same sweet driveability is kept

[Negative Boost]

I was having a browse on the Castle Hill Toyota website and stumbled across V160 specfic oil. Guess how much it is?! $145 for a 1 (yes a 1) litre tin!!

[Norbie]

Yes the genuine stuff is crazy expensive. I don't think I'll be using it if an oil change is more expensive than buying a whole W58!

[Draven]

it's ~$120 for 2 litres from a sponsor of sf.com.au :)

[grahamd]

Expensive oil yes, but it is supposedly the best oil for the box.

I used Castrol Transmax Z - the only other oil recommended, and the synchros are a bit tight on the 1-2 change especially when cold. Was thinking of flushing the box and changing to the genuine oil to see if it makes any difference.

And before anyone says the synchros might need replacing the box was rebuilt before fitting to the car - if you think the genuine oil is expensive that's nothing compared to new synchro's. But hey - it's a V160 and worth every cent it cost. Awesome ratios - that's why you fit one of these.

By the way I have the complete V160 workshop manual if you need any info.

[Mr Ed]

V160 gear oil is longer produced either so if you want it, get it fast!!

[Mr Ed]

Any news on the parts from Toyota?

[Norbie]

Apparently all but one part has arrived, ETA unknown at this point. :(

[Norbie]

Parts have arrived! Many thanks to Lance for organising it all for me. :)

Hopefully I'll have it all fitted in the next couple of weeks, assuming I can figure out how the whole mess fits together. The fact that I've never seen a 6-speed clutch up close, much less assembled/disassembled one, certainly won't work in my favour. :confused:

[Negative Boost]

Gee, didn't think the clutchs would be much different, got any pics?

[Norbie]

The V160 has a pull-type clutch which is much more complicated and annoying than the simple W58-type arrangement. The box of parts I picked up tonight contained at least a dozen individual pieces, not including the actual clutch/pressure plate assembly!

http://mkiv.com/manual/manualtt/clutch_replacement/c1.jpg

[Big rob]

What advantages does a pull type clutch have over a push type? I'm thinking there is more driver feedback since it seems the clutch fork is attached to the pressure plate rather than just pushing against it.

[Norbie]

I believe higher clamp pressures are possible with a pull-type clutch, but I'm not really sure.

[grahamd]

Hey Norbie

Make sure the E-ring is fitted correctly on the release fork. Mine let go one day and made a bit of a mess in there. Was a bit tricky driving home with no clutch and lots of noise from inside the bellhousing.

Managed to salvage all parts and re-fit with a new circlip. Also centre punched the pin so it won't slide out on its own as well.

Cheers

[Norbie]

Thanks for the tip, I'll try my best! Feeling extra nervous now. :o

I got the transmission out today, took quite a lot of effort to get the shifter bracket clear of the tunnel without breaking it; the new section of the tunnel was built with the bracket in place and we didn't leave enough clearance. Oops! I'll get the grinder out this weekend and that problem will be fixed soon enough.

[The Witzl]

Good to hear this is all coming along nicely Mr Norbie :)

Looking forward to feeling the 6 gears of forward motion at Dubbo!

[Norbie]

Sadly the 6 gears are unlikely to be at Dubbo; I have to choose between the Supra and the Century, and I think the latter choice is the obvious one.

[Norbie]

I suck at ordering parts. In the exploded diagram above you can see three parts which attach the throwout bearing to the clutch cover, namely the plate washer, wave washer and snap ring. So here's the parts I have:

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/ClutchParts02.jpg

The wave washer is in the plastic bag. As you can see its diameter is a bit smaller than the other ones. After double-checking my list of parts it would appear I ordered the wrong one - so now I have to order the correct part and wait several more weeks for it to arrive! :mad: :mad:

Slightly better news, there's a package waiting for me at the post office which I can only assume is a shiny new GT35R turbo. Can't wait to pick it up! I'll have to wait until Monday though.

[Norbie]

Hooray, the new wave washer has arrived and it fits! :D The clutch is already half assembled and should be ready to go in the car on the weekend.

Before it goes in though I need to change the rear main seal on the engine. Has anyone done this with the engine in the car? Do I need any special tools or equipment?

[wilbo666]

Before it goes in though I need to change the rear main seal on the engine. Has anyone done this with the engine in the car? Do I need any special tools or equipment?

You can get groovey little hook things (e.g. these (http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TH1762&CATID=&keywords=TH1762&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=)) that should make it kinda easy.

My suggestion...

Cheers
Wilbo

[-==L=a=N=c=E==-]

self tapping screw, at several points around the seal, and pull it out.

[japlish]

little wire hook and a slide hammer;)

[grahamd]

Don't forget the tension wrench to tighten the flywheel bolts.

[Esteban]

Getting the seal back in evenly is sometimes a problem, esp without bending it ... but you already know that... How big is the seal? on small seals I've had success using a 32+mm-ish socket to tap them in evenly. Got something big and round? :-

[Norbie]

The seal is way bigger than any socket you're likely to come across, but yeah I'm sure I can find something of a suitable size.

[Mos]

You can remove the seal carrier, hammer the seal in with something flat and reinstall (but this might be more work than slowly tapping the seal in around its circumference).
Mos.

[Norbie]

OK I think I've got the seal thing sorted, thanks guys!

Made a bit more progress, the clutch is together and assembled on the transmission so it's all ready to go in. I'm waiting to have the fuel and brake lines made first, I've got a guy coming over next week to do that. The transmission tunnel is now coated in a thick layer of body deadener, damn it's a messy job but it's looking great now!

I was hoping to have this all done before the Nationals, but you know how it is. Good thing I wasn't planning to drive the Supra because I'd be pretty screwed right now!

[Norbie]

I took the day off today and got some solid work done for a change. The rear main seal is installed and hopefully sealed up good (I used lots of goop), and here's a photo of the clutch installed on the transmission:

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/ClutchInstalled01.jpg

Fuel and brake lines were installed today so the transmission is finally ready to go in. Hopefully I can round up a bit of help on the weekend and in it goes! :D

I got some pics of the tunnel now that it's all painted nicely (ahem):

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/TunnelDone01.jpg

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/TunnelDone04.jpg

Just as well you won't be able to see it when the interior is back together.

[Viper]

Nice work.

Enough room to bolt the bugger to the engine?
Or is it all gonna need to be dropped?

[Norbie]

The 6-speed isn't much bigger than the 5-speed at the front so I don't anticipate any problems there. All the bigness is at the back which is why the tunnel was chopped around the shifter hole.

[EldarO]

thats a psycho looking clutch :P

good to see it getting there dude, well done, definitely unique!

Elmo.

[Draven]

Can we have details on the clutch please?
like price, who did it, and what it's designed to hold :) (ie: 220rwkw in a 1300kg car vs 350+rwkw in a 1500kg car)

I have a feeling I'll be frying my stock clutch fairly quickly

[Norbie]

It's basically a stock MkIV clutch with 50% increased clamp. It was built by Direct Clutch in Brisbane and cost about $600 including new drive plate, reco'd pressure plate and flywheel machining. The guy actually recommended a 5-puck ceramic drive plate but I decided to try the organic plate first and see how it goes; I reckon what I have here should be good for 500hp at the flywheel but we'll see. :)

[JustenGT8]

Hmmm solid centre organic? You'll smell slippage within the week i think Norbie

[Norbie]

Rz from PF had a similar setup with way more power than I have, and his current setup isn't much different, just a ceramic button solid centre. I reckon it will be fine for the time being but like I said, we shall see. :)

Another setback tonight, I was going to put the flywheel on when I realised the bolts I have aren't even long enough to poke through the back of the flywheel much less screw into the crank. Looks like I ordered the bolts for the auto. :mad:

[The Witzl]

Another setback tonight, I was going to put the flywheel on when I realised the bolts I have aren't even long enough to poke through the back of the flywheel much less screw into the crank. Looks like I ordered the bolts for the auto. :mad:

ya drongo!
Well done with getting the clutch and everything sorted, and for the fantastic paint job on the floorpan :P

Tar paint in a can FTW.

[JustenGT8]

Hmm must be some clamp pressure? Full face solids are really prone to slip as there's no spring to take up the initial shock load....once an organic starts slipping it gets hot and keeps slipping.

Dunno how RZ's did the job but common wisdom says it shouldn't :)

Heavy duty organic on the GT8 wouldn't see 2psi before dissolving on the dyno :)

[Norbie]

It's a solid centre but that's what a stock V160 clutch looks like, they have a dual-mass flywheel which does pretty much the same thing as a sprung centre.

[JustenGT8]

Ah that would do it then. Combined with the huge dia i guess it's enough? I've been for a drive with you remember...can't see that organicy stuff hanging together long :)

[The Witzl]

I've been for a drive with you remember...can't see that organicy stuff hanging together long :)

I'm going to agree Norbie.... Unless you have upgraded your digital accelerator to analogue since last time i was in your Supra :P

0= cruise
1= skids

[Norbie]

Bah! to the lot of you. :P

The biggest reason I shied away from the button clutch is because I destroyed 4 gearboxes last time I installed one of those. The first gearbox actually lasted quite a long time because it had the organic clutch originally. Now that I have a $3k gearbox I really REALLY don't want to break it, a bit of clutch slip is much better IMO!

Meanwhile the gearbox swap is still at a standstill as I'm waiting for parts, again. :( Plenty of other stuff to keep me busy though, such as installing an oil cooler, new gauges, adjustable swaybars and of course fixing the intercooler I jammed into a driveway a while back. Stupid low cars! :mad:

[Norbie]

I spoke too soon, flywheel bolts have arrived! Gearbox is going in this weekend, dammit surely nothing else can go wrong?

[JustCallMeOrlando]

"Ladies and Gentleman, if you look out to the left side of the plane you will see a flying pig"

[MR 1JZ]

its a getrag...they dont break

[thechuckster]

sooooo ... how long before the diff dies then?

[Norbie]

I've got my money on driveshafts first.

[grahamd]

Who says Getrag's don't break - they had better tell my gerabox that story.

Mine comes out next week for another round of synchro's and hubs yet again - and I don't thrash it at all. Hasn't even had a burnout done with it yet. Must have bought a brumby model from Japan.

[BigWorm]

I think your problem might be lack of burnouts.
Chuck a few skids & a couple of doughnuts once you get it back together, then repeat on at least a monthly basis (preferably weekly) and I'm sure your box will live a longer happier life.
If not, make sure you film it. ;)

[Norbie]

I'm pleased to report the V160 is now sitting in its new home, and with any luck won't be coming out again for a very long time! It actually goes in much easier than a W58 because you don't have to worry about lining up the splines; the clutch is already sitting on the input shaft and you bolt the pressure plate to the flywheel after the transmission is bolted up to the engine, just like with an auto. So all you have to do is find the spigot bearing and the rest is easy. :)

There's a bit of work left to do though. The top bellhousing bolts are much harder to get at now so I need to buy a longer ratchet extension before I can finally bolt it up to the floorpan. The hydraulic line isn't long enough to reach the slave cylinder so I'll have to find a longer rubber hose section (it's the same as a brake hose so that shouldn't be a drama). The biggest worry though was the crank pulley coming undone as I was turning the engine over by hand, and with very little effort too! That bolt is meant to have 300nm of torque on it so I hope I haven't destroyed the keyway in the crank. :eek: For now I'm going to get the biggest breaker bar I can find and lean on it with the help of a friend or two, not sure if I'll manage 300nm but I'm sure I can do better than how it was!

After all that's sorted I just need to find the cash for a tailshaft and it's time to go driving. :D

[Negative Boost]

Sounds great norbie! If the crank pulley bolt is already loose, i'd take it off and check the keyway before trying to put 300nm of torque on it! Just to be on the safe side.

[Norbie]

Yeah I know, but that means the radiator comes out and Norbie is not keen. Besides I might see something I really don't want to see! :eek:

[JustCallMeOrlando]

Better than finding out the nasty way after! I'd do it now, it's not as if you're relying on driving it atm!

[love ke70]

she'll be right :D

have some stupidly long etensions if you need norbie, 600, 450 and 300 in 1/2 and 3/8

[oldcorollas]

not sure if I'll manage 300nm but I'm sure I can do better than how it was!

30kg of force at 1m. (horizontal bar)
20kg of force at 1.5m

should be able to do it easy... with a piece of pipe :D

you get get tricky if you wanted to do it "accurately".. with a vertical bit of pipe, horizontal rope, a pully and some weights :cool: not quite a WST, but close

[Norbie]

More progress this weekend, and I got photos this time! :D

Here's the custom fuel lines, haven't got around to hooking up the hoses yet but that shouldn't take long:

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/FuelLines02.jpg

I managed to tighten all of the bellhousing bolts (I needed 5 ratchet extensions to get at some of them) so the box is now bolted up properly, and the external shifter bracket fits with no clearance issues much to my relief.

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/BoxFitted04.jpg

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/BoxFitted02.jpg

The transmission tunnel got a final coat of white paint so it doesn't look so crap, and I re-installed the carpet and seats so it looks like a proper car interior again. I didn't get around to hacking up the centre console, that will come later.

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/TunnelDone07.jpg

http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/TunnelDone12.jpg

More photos here (http://www.norbie.net/Project2JZ/SixSpeed/default.htm).

It's getting very close now! I just need to finish the fuel hoses, extend the hydraulic line for the clutch, and buy/install a tailshaft - then it's driving time! I can almost smell the burning rubber. :D

[JustenGT8]

Console??? Come on Norbie, all that effort, you don't want to ruin the ghetto look now by installing the console ;)

seriously though, nice work and warrants DIY applause

[richzx]

Good work Norbie it's come a long way since I saw your car. In 4 years its bee re-shelled new brakes gearbox suspension and eaps of other things. I sold mine but am getting into a cressida and going for the 1j engine swap and auto so my wife can drive it. Maybe I should just go for a 6 speed as well, and a 2j! Hmmm maybe not.......$$$$:(
Cheers
Rich

[Negative Boost]

Yup, thats looking awsome Norbie. Its going to be a madly insane car to drive once this is done.

Just had a thought, your not going to use the century to tow the supra to the driveshaft place i hope :eek:

[Norbie]

As much as the Century would make an excellent tow car, I would never bastardise it with a towbar!

There's no need to tow the car anyway, I'll just take the measurements to the driveshaft place and fit the finished product myself. :)

[Norbie]

Fuel system is finished, and for the first time in 5 years my Supra has a fuel filter! Exactly how it continued to run for so long without one is beyond me, but there you have it. Anyway I fired up the fuel pump and there were no leaks anywhere in the system so I'm calling that a win.

Later in the week I'll finish my oil cooler install (just need to trim the hoses to length) and I'll be able to start the engine - then it's time to see if the clutch actually works! It better after all the money I've spent on it. :mad:

Please contribute to the Finish Norbie's Supra fund, I need a tailshaft!

[thechuckster]

Fuel system is finished, and for the first time in 5 years my Supra has a fuel filter! Exactly how it continued to run for so long without one is beyond me...
driving at WoT all the time allows any dirt to escape thru the injector pintle? :p

[The Witzl]

dear lord.... and i thought i cut some corners!

On a side note Mr Norbie.... i'll be delivering some engines soon. Like maybe even this weekend :)
A new promotion at work has meant im allowed to build my engine this year!

[Norbie]

Woohoo, more things to throw money at! :D

[Draven]

this could be an appropriate place to ask...

I have some seepage on the bottom of my V161, toward the front on the bit wit hthe metal "vanes".
What gasket do you reckon has most likely gone?

[grahamd]

There is no gasket between the gearbox pieces themselves - just a coating of gasket type cement.

Any leakage onto the ribs is usually the rear main oil seal on the engine. The weep runs down behind the flywheel and towards the join of the bellhousing on the gearbox. After I replaced my rear seal the leaks all disappeared and stays spotless now.

[Norbie]

Yeah, a leak towards the front would suggest engine rear seal or gearbox front seal. Have you looked inside your bellhousing (via inspection cover) lately? If there's lot of oil in there it's time to drop the gearbox.

[grahamd]

What oil are you running in the 6 speed - I have been using Castol Transmax Z but are going to change to Royal Purple Syncromax. Just had an expensive rebuild with new synchros and it is still difficult to change 1-2. M5 owners are switching to Synchromax to solve their gear change problems with their Getrags.

[Draven]

Royal purple is, by all accounts, pretty good.

personally, I just use Toyota stuff.